Scott (scott@scottcertain.com) (11/11/2002 8:58 AM): Good Morning, folks

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 8:59 AM): Is everyone safe from tornadoes? One hit about 25 miles away I think.

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 8:59 AM): I hope everyone had a fabulous weekend!

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (11/11/2002 8:59 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (11/11/2002 9:00 AM): Goof morning.

Pat (pht-commerce.net) (11/11/2002 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:00 AM): Weekends? Did we have a weekend? (I worked all weekend. :) )

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:00 AM): Grrrrrrrrrrreetings everyone. I was hoping that the holidays would bring everyone!

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (11/11/2002 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:01 AM): Doesn't EVERYONE work all weekend?

Pat (pht-commerce.net) (11/11/2002 9:01 AM): Holiday? What holiday? Not for me.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (11/11/2002 9:01 AM): What holiday? :)

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:01 AM): Yes - we have weekends - working days when you break for a party one evening and break for church the next morning

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:01 AM): Holiday? Is this a holiday? Just kidding.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:01 AM): Frederick, maybe that idea will catch on. :)

Michael (11/11/2002 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:02 AM): Hello all!

Michael (11/11/2002 9:02 AM): Good morning, or afternoon for the other East Coasters

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:02 AM): Well, this is Veterans' Day in the USA, and having never served myself, I do express thank to those survivors who put their lives on the line for the USA, no matter how battered our reputation may be.....

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:03 AM): So, anyone have any pressing issues today?

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (11/11/2002 9:03 AM): amen

Michael (11/11/2002 9:03 AM): Thank you to Rob for the terrific Frankel Bees newsletter and this chat--

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:03 AM): Agreed, Rob

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:04 AM): Morning everyone!

Michael (11/11/2002 9:04 AM): a question for the group, I am seeking resources for learning how to license artwork for different products--

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:04 AM): BTW - it's Veterans Day all over the world

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:04 AM): Rob - cold calling...

Michael (11/11/2002 9:05 AM): a question for the group, I am seeking resources for learning how to license artwork for different products--

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:05 AM): Michael, whose art work?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:05 AM): BTW, trivia: the reason why this is Veterans Day is that originally, Armistice Day which end WWI was ended with the signing of the surrender papers at the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month....

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:05 AM): how to? (I'm not looking forward to it at all)

Mark Roberts (mark.roberts@robertscomputing.com) (11/11/2002 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:05 AM): I would like to be put in the queue for a question.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:05 AM): David, what question did you have about cold calling?

Michael (11/11/2002 9:05 AM): sorry for the repeat msg.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:05 AM): Cheryl you're after David

Michael (11/11/2002 9:06 AM): looking to license art from a well known artist

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:06 AM): Great thanks!

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:06 AM): oh man...I'm so nervous about doing it - I guess I want to come up with some ideas for making them easier...

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:06 AM): David, did you get today's FrankelTips? It had a BIG answer about that, complete with a good source.

Michael (11/11/2002 9:06 AM): through the acquisition of an original piece of art

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:06 AM): I personally NEVER get on the phone to "smile and dial." I hate it, so I use e-mail. And it works.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:07 AM): hmmm

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:07 AM): The way to cold call today is to find the e-mail addresses of your targets, then compose a killer letter. That is what does it for me, at least.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:07 AM): Michael, so what exactly do you need? Sample licensing fees?

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (11/11/2002 9:07 AM): Michael, check out Nolopress.com

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (11/11/2002 9:08 AM): Here is the link: http://www.nolo.com/lawstore/products/product.cfm/ObjectID/A29C53F7-12AD-4387-896BE9533E0A58E8

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:08 AM): Let me put it this way Dave: I spent about $3K testing a cold calling leads service for my stuff. It came up with zippo. Even after follow up calls. Cold e-mail, on the other hand, resulted in at least two accounts worth a total over six figures.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:08 AM): Is Anita on it, or what???

John Charlesworth (BellaCoola.com Professional Web Tracking) (11/11/2002 9:08 AM): Entered the room.

Michael (11/11/2002 9:09 AM): that is an excellent suggestion Anita, thank you.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:09 AM): So I think I'd rather go the cold e-mail route.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (11/11/2002 9:09 AM): As a cybrarian, I know about copyrights

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:09 AM): David, not to plug or anything, but there was a column a few issues ago in FrankelTips about being nervous. basically, it means you don't believe in your own brand enough.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:10 AM): That's great...cybrarian.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (11/11/2002 9:10 AM): Information Specialist is too vague, and Knowledge Engineer is silly.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:10 AM): Anyway, I save the phone calls for the time when the CEO or whomever responds and says, "let's talk on Tuesday."

Michael (11/11/2002 9:11 AM): our goal is to license and sublicense auxiliary products from this original piece of art, this info looks like a good first step

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:11 AM): Cheryl, you want to jump in here?

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:11 AM): Yes Rob thanks!

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (11/11/2002 9:12 AM): Michael, check the GAG -- graphic artists guild -- gag.org. The Handbook has pricing info on licensing.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:12 AM): I'm sending out a survey and I want to know how to follow up with people that fill it out. Should I ask a question at the bottom saying do you want to be contacted or ?????

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:13 AM): ..as much as their licensing stuff is followed. Michael, it's always going to be a negotiation.

Michael (11/11/2002 9:13 AM): great, thank you Tamara

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:13 AM): What's the survey and to whom are you sending it?

Rob B (robert.j.bennett@db.com) (11/11/2002 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:14 AM): Entered the room.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:14 AM): It's asking questions about would they hire a VA and why, how much would they pay etc...I'm going to send it out to personal and business contacts and potential clients.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:15 AM): Wait a minute Cheryl, why would you send out something like that?

Scott (scott@scottcertain.com) (11/11/2002 9:15 AM): Good Morning, folks

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:15 AM): To learn more about my potential customers.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:15 AM): Do those polls work or are they thinly disguised sales pitches?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:16 AM): Wrong-o-ritos, Cheryl. Lorilyn is right. You're about to make a huge mistake....

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:16 AM): I receive them by phone and can't hang up fast enough.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:16 AM): I've never done one before and it is geared for me to gather information about potential clients.

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:17 AM): Frankly, I never answer surveys - even when there is some monetary gain for doing so.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:17 AM): First, you have to remember that your brand's job is to lead, not follow. If you start asking all kinds of questions, it not only pisses them off, it also telegraphs that you want them to tell you how to run your business.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:17 AM): It's going to be posted on my website and people are not being forced to answer it.

Rob B (robert.j.bennett@db.com) (11/11/2002 9:18 AM): And it might also indicate that you don't know enough to do them any good

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:18 AM): The second mistake is that you're asking them the wrong questions. The survey should be asking them about their own businesses. From that, you should be able to glean what services they'll respond to most.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:18 AM): So how can I gather more information about potential clients?

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (11/11/2002 9:18 AM): I love the print surveys where they send a ONE DOLLAR BILL along -- basically saying my 15 minutes is only worth a whole buck. Sheesh.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:19 AM): Rob or anyone, do you know of any good polling software that can be installed on a site?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:19 AM): Finally, if you're posting it to your web site, what kind of sample could you possibly get that had any statistical relevance? How many respondents do you expect?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:19 AM): Weber, I'm glad you asked that question:

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:19 AM): A website demographic survey can tell you much.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:20 AM): Wait 'til you guys see the HUGE change we'll be making on FrankelBiz when it migrates to the i-legions platform. It includes all kinds of new stuff, including a polling feature.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:20 AM): That's what I'm here for:)

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:20 AM): I'm not sure. I was just wanting to receive some information to help me get more clients.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:20 AM): In the meantime, I think http://www.zoomerang.com seems to be the service of choice.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:21 AM): Rob, will it have those "Mini polls" where you can answer and it tallies up on the next page and gives immediate feedback?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:21 AM): Cheryl, if you don't have tons of respondents, surveys can do more damage than good, because a small sample skews everything the wrong way. You'll get bad information and as a result, bad results

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:21 AM): Yes, Weber. And much more. It's really soooooo cool.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:22 AM): So what should I do then?

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:22 AM): Cheryl, winning new clients through a survey is really obvious and a turnoff for clients, IMV.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:22 AM): Is the polling software expensive?

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:22 AM): Zoomerang costs $599. Should be very cool.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:23 AM): I didn't realize it was going to offend people to take one.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:23 AM): They have an individual/non-business free version.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:24 AM): Cheryl, are you just starting out?

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:24 AM): Do you mean in my business?

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:24 AM): It's not offensive to take one, it's the questions you'd ask which seem to be a thinly veiled sales pitch.

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:24 AM): How 'bout a demographic survey 'so we can find out more about our clients, to serve them better' - then you get info about specific clients who reply, and anyone who replies who is NOT a client identifies themselves as a prospect.

Rob B (robert.j.bennett@db.com) (11/11/2002 9:25 AM): It's not a matter of offense, it's a matter of how is thing going to help my business. If it doesn't answer that, then why should they take the time?

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:25 AM): yes - in your business

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:25 AM): Cheryl, it is not offensive to take a poll. Just remember that the total lack of ethics by a lot of companies on the internet, and elsewhere makes people suspicious. If your pool smells like a come on for business, it will be taken that way. You will lose their trust. If it is presented as a poll strictly for information you may get more respondents. Just don't use it to sell.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:25 AM): Weber, the FrankelBiz polling stuff will be cheap. Zoomerang lets you do little one off polls for free.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:25 AM): Frederick that is exactly what I put together but everyone seems to think it's a bad idea.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:26 AM): Cheryl, time for a reality check: what kind of response are you getting to the idea right here and now?

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:26 AM): I've been doing it for 8 months now.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:26 AM): Then again, we're also a small group of respondent....you going to let that influence you?

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:26 AM): Cheryl - a DEMOGRAPHIC survey - does not include How much will you pay, etc.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:27 AM): We have post-traumatic disorder from Internet companies who call and say, they are polling, e.g. "What do you look for in an Internet company?"

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:27 AM): Well what is a demographic survey then. I have never done this before so maybe it just needs revamping.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:27 AM): Lorilyn, my answer is leave me alone, that's what I look for.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:28 AM): I feel like it is a bad idea now from everyone's response.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:28 AM): Cheryl, here's the deal: a survey should be about what is bugging THEM the most about THEIR businesses. And it has to be done in a way that they welcome and that you can interpret data.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:28 AM): Cheryl, done correctly it can be good. Done wrong it will be devastating to your biz.

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:29 AM): Demographics -= how big, how many employees, area of country, total sales range, number of company owned vehicles - etc, depending on what is relevant - Facts,, not opinions

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (11/11/2002 9:29 AM): Cheryl, don't forget there are a lot of folks on the web who love to take surveys -- and who lie through their teeth. One of my friends answers all questions the opposite of what he really thinks/believes (and in demographic surveys he's an 80 year old female).

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:30 AM): Also, Cheryl, if they're at your web site already, why bother with a survey? Get on with the sale. Now, if you really want feedback from a small group of respondents, the best way is to encourage free form feedback. Ask them something like, "Don't see what you need? Tell us (anonymously if you like) and we'll get right on it."

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:30 AM): Okay well I guess I need to rethink things some more.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:30 AM): Now that wouldn't be a survey, just a simple Comment box with a submit button. This is how you get better more actionable information. Because they're not being led anywhere.

Jonathan Cohen (jonathancohen@telus.net) (11/11/2002 9:31 AM): Entered the room.

tonynovak (11/11/2002 9:31 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:31 AM): When people are being set up, they tend to ramble on with the truth. This is why I try to avoid focus groups as much as possible.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:32 AM): Thanks for your feedback everyone!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:32 AM): Cheryl, if you're looking for marketing stuff, you're also much better off reaching out to new prospects, not just sitting there and waiting for them. I'd much rather receive an e-mail from someone I kind of know announcing their new service with a polite letter.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:33 AM): Who's next? Anyone new here today that wants to jump in?

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:33 AM): You mean instead of the survey?

Anita (11/11/2002 9:33 AM): I've noticed that the VA phenom seems to be centered on the East Coast.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:33 AM): Yes, Cheryl. I'd just tack up a Suggestion box on your site for now.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:33 AM): Rob, where is the best place to buy lists for cold emailing?

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:34 AM): Okay thanks very much Rob.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:34 AM): Anita, I'm so sure that VA is a huge category, but that nobody is marketing it correctly

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:34 AM): Anita, we're more hyper than laid-back West Coasters. ;) We need help.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:34 AM): David, did you read your FrankelTips? It's in this morning's issue!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:34 AM): <--- All business

Anita (11/11/2002 9:34 AM): That is probably it. I only know of three for San Diego.

Michael (11/11/2002 9:34 AM): David, what type of audience are you seeking and what is your goal for the email?

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:35 AM): ooooh...there's a good one - how to market VA services correctly...

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:35 AM): ooooh...there's a good one - how to market VA services correctly...'t get FrankelTips (yet)

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:35 AM): If there are any newbies present, there are some people who think 'e-mail cold calling' is a clever new name for spam.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:36 AM): oops...posted that twice - I meant to say I don't subscribe to FrankelTips (yet)

Michael (11/11/2002 9:36 AM): that seems vague to me sorry, do you mean "sell" VA services?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:36 AM): Oh Fred, don't start that again...

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:36 AM): Dave you and I should hook up and chat via email.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:37 AM): yes - I have been giving it some thought myself - how to correctly 'sell' VA services

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:37 AM): I've always felt that VA is a great category with huge potential. The problem is that the people who are VA's are still a happy band of individuals with no corporate backing

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:37 AM): I'm not starting it - it's a discussion already here to which I am responding

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:37 AM): David, click the gold button in the top frame.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:38 AM): VA's also seem to be shy and unwilling to network with their potential clients.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:38 AM): Cheryl - I'm taking down your email now & will get with you shortly

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:38 AM): And do it today, because I don't send out back issues.....you'll have to wait for the e-book when it comes out

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:38 AM): Sounds great Dave.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:38 AM): That was "unwilling".

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:38 AM): Anita, that's true. Here's another great illustration of having a great product, but lack of marketing killing the category

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:38 AM): Rob, so the source is available now if I sign up? Just today?

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:39 AM): Anita I think it is because we aren't sure how. I was a fabulous personal assistant but never worked via internet before. It's a whole new ball game.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:39 AM): so what kind of suggestions for marketing will you make here, Rob?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:39 AM): Yup. Before Monday is over. Or you'll have to wait for the e-book to come out in two months or so.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:40 AM): I answered a question on a newsletter, and it was published. The result? I am now getting e-mails from possible new clients.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:40 AM): David, this chat is for quick questions and answers. Stuff that requires more thought and consideration is for FrankelTips.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:40 AM): Network face to face!

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:41 AM): lol...ok, i get the idea - i gotta subscribe!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:41 AM): Also, you have to remember that I try to answer as many new people's issues as possible here in one hour. That doesn't give us a lot of time.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:41 AM): Anita, I can't I don't service any local clients.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:41 AM): Remember, that on FrankelTips. I have a week to work n the answers.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:41 AM): Gotcha

tonynovak (11/11/2002 9:42 AM): Anita, the big problem I have with VAs is that the high start-up cost of teaching someone to handle an outplaced project is more than just doing it internally. I wonder how many other potential customers have that trouble?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:42 AM): I also have few if any local clients. At present, the closest client I have is 500 miles away.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:42 AM): Cheryl, then start writing articles for ezines about what you do.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:42 AM): Good idea Anita thanks.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:43 AM): Good point Tony. I think that's why VA's need to structure their services better. Start out with basic stuff that everyone needs and that they don't need to learn. Then, as you go, upsell with more custom services

Anita (11/11/2002 9:43 AM): Tony, it depends on what you want a VA to do.

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:43 AM): Working with local clients is a good way to get a strong start - but you have to be willing to market yourself (cold calls, cold emails, etc.) to make it work

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:43 AM): Tony isn't that the same as training a new employee to do the job?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:43 AM): Scott, did you have a question or something I can help with?

Anita (11/11/2002 9:43 AM): I always assumed that VA did the basic gopher stuff, secretarial, and calling.

tonynovak (11/11/2002 9:43 AM): Also, (a personal experience) I got ripped off by a VA who took an up-front deposit and then never did any of the work agreed. It left a bad taste with me.

tonynovak (11/11/2002 9:44 AM): I know most are not like that.

Scott (scott@scottcertain.com) (11/11/2002 9:44 AM): Just lurking today, Rob. Thanks.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:44 AM): Tony, what you probably need is a freelancer

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:44 AM): Cheryl, the text on your site doesn't match your design. Need brighter, friendlier colors to match the good humor of the content of the site. (Answering because you're relatively new to Net.)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:44 AM): No Cheryl, I recall an employee I hired on the spot because I was all alone in the office and the phones started to go nuts. This women simply started answering the phone and taking messages for me. I hired her right there.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:45 AM): Okay, Scott, didn't want you to be left out....

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:45 AM): Not every VA is the same Tony. That is why I bill at the end of every month instead of you paying up front.

Michael K (michael@tapinternet.com) (11/11/2002 9:45 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:46 AM): I almost did a deal with a VA, but she didn't have the stomach for it. I think she was afraid of success.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:46 AM): I've encountered a new trend lately. I bought an ebook, and a week later someone called me from the same company to try and sell me something else!

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:46 AM): Lorilyn, actually I was thinking I need to revamp my site because I built it myself learning HTML from scratch 8 months ago.

Michael K (michael@tapinternet.com) (11/11/2002 9:46 AM): There you go with that 'fear of success' rob! :)

tonynovak (11/11/2002 9:47 AM): Anita: Consider the dilemma of the small business owner: What projects are best outsourced? How do I find out? Where can I get ideas of what works and what does not?

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:47 AM): Rob, that sounds very intriguing.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:47 AM): I hate people calling me and trying to sell something!

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:47 AM): a VA with a fear of success shouldn't be a VA...IMO

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:47 AM): Anita, nothing wrong with that as far as I can see.

Jonathan Cohen (jonathancohen@telus.net) (11/11/2002 9:47 AM): VAs also have a very personal and 'intimate' relationship with their clients...every one is different, and it takes time to build rapport.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:47 AM): Anita, that's a BIG trap with e-books. I call them "spring-loaded" and that's why I don't allow them offered on FrankelBiz. The same thing happens if you download some trial software for free. I downloaded MYOB and started getting e-mails from accountants.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:47 AM): Tony, there is an outsourcing institute online where they try to answer those sort of questions.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:48 AM): I agree, I would be happy to take on any new projects and I'm very much willing to learn new things. It seems like she was in the wrong business.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:48 AM): Search on the keyword "outsourcing" on Google.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:48 AM): My old VA was great until she up and decided to move to Nebraska or something...it was weird.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:48 AM): Rentacoder works. I'm so happy with the person I'm working with.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:49 AM): Tony, if you want to email me I would be happy to give you a free consultation and find someone that fills your needs.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:49 AM): Rob, I would not have minded if they tried to sell me with an e-mail.

tonynovak (11/11/2002 9:49 AM): Rob - if she's "virtual" why did that matter?

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:49 AM): That's probably why it was weird.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:50 AM): Rob, a quick question.

Michael K (michael@tapinternet.com) (11/11/2002 9:50 AM): Lorilyn - just curious here. If you're happy with Rentacoder, why did you post a relatively technical question to the list instead of using them?

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:50 AM): Rob that is very strange. The whole idea to being a VA is that you can move anywhere and still work online.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:50 AM): Anita, the thing I had a problem with is that MYOB had no business selling my contact info to some hack accountants. They should have warned me of that and then I wouldn't have downloaded their product.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:50 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING) Go ahead Anita

Jonathan Cohen (jonathancohen@telus.net) (11/11/2002 9:50 AM): Lorilyn - wasn't I the one who pointed you to Rentacoder? (woo hoo!)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:51 AM): Cheryl, I am a firm, 1000000% backer of the VA product/service. I just think that nobody is marketing it correctly.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:51 AM): Is it too late for the Xmas rush to launch a new product / idea?

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:51 AM): Jonathan, I think so, and I thank you! I'm working with their second-top coder. Love him!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:51 AM): Um, pretty late Anita. Depends on what the product is and what channels you're marketing it through. Forget B&M channels, they closed long ago.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:51 AM): VirtualAssistants.com seems to be an agency. Never heard of them, though. They need to market themselves.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:52 AM): What is B&M?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:52 AM): Also, forget Christmas media offline...very expensive and no good inventory left.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:52 AM): Yes it is too late for Christmas.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:52 AM): I meant Rob that it was strange that she moved and wasn't able to service you still.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:53 AM): The idea covers geek gift baskets.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:53 AM): Cheryl, that was just her. I would love to have a VA client because it's the bridge between human stuff and PDA's.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:53 AM): Bricks and Mortar

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:53 AM): Anita, if it's online, no it's not too late, but you gotta hustle. People are promoting their goods about now

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:53 AM): Well we should chat offline then. I would love to assist you in your business.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:54 AM): Anita, if you already have gift basket business and gift basket clients, it's probably prime time to email them. This week.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:54 AM): Cheryl, I've got a VA I use right now. But I think there's a much bigger picture here.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:54 AM): No, I am not in that business (yet).

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:55 AM): But I welcome your e-mails offline

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:55 AM): Lorilyn would you mind giving me some ideas about what I should change the colors too?

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:55 AM): Lorilyn, do you have a lot of gift basket customers?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:55 AM): I'm always looking at new ventures

David Ware (dave@24hourassistant.com) (11/11/2002 9:55 AM): Cheryl, I'll email you soon. Thanks again Rob!

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:55 AM): Yes I understand Rob. We need to learn how to market ourselves.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:55 AM): Here is a new one, then. I already have the domain name.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:56 AM): No, I'm in the PR business, not gift baskets. I wish someone would SEND me a gift basket. :)

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:56 AM): Great David I look forward to it.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:56 AM): But, I am so busy with the SEO stuff

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:56 AM): Cheryl, I like purple and yellow myself. Maybe have a "doctor" theme, too. Not to cutesy, though.

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:56 AM): Before we close, could I slip in a quick question for everyone/anyone - I may need a bunch of autoresponders. Any recommendations?

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:56 AM): Oh, just wondering. We do produce baskets for a bunch of companies. All on a custom bases.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:57 AM): GetResponse.com

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:57 AM): That should be basis.

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:57 AM): Interesting concept. Never thought of that.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:57 AM): FrankelBee Cheryl Gonzalez

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 9:58 AM): Cheryl, it would need to be very, very simple and clean.

Anita (11/11/2002 9:58 AM): Weber, email me.

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:58 AM): Thanks, Anita - others?

Dave (No name yet) (11/11/2002 9:58 AM): Entered the room.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:58 AM): eznetgroup.net

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 9:58 AM): Yes, that is what I was trying for. Something very easy to navigate and understand.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:59 AM): Anita, what is your email address?

Anita (11/11/2002 9:59 AM): anita@mysearchguru.com

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 9:59 AM): Thanks, Weber

Dave (No name yet) (11/11/2002 9:59 AM): Hey Fred - www.phantasyworkshosting.com gives you a whack of free autoresponders with your account - and a ton of other scripts. Have a site there, happy w/ the service so far. $8.95 a month I think, I'm sure there's at least 5 autoresponders if not unlimited amount.

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 9:59 AM): Email is off to you.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (11/11/2002 10:00 AM): Alrighty then, that went by fast! Everyone enjoy their holiday (or slower work day as it applies to me....) and I'll see you online!

Pat (pht-commerce.net) (11/11/2002 10:00 AM): Have a good week everyone.

Lorilyn Bailey (NewsBuzz.com) (11/11/2002 10:00 AM): Thank you everybody. Have a great week!

John Charlesworth (BellaCoola.com Professional Web Tracking) (11/11/2002 10:00 AM): See ya next week!

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 10:00 AM): Thanks Dave - will check them out

Anita (11/11/2002 10:00 AM): Later!

Michael (11/11/2002 10:00 AM): thanks for the advice

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 10:00 AM): Bye Rob

Cheryl Lynn Spencer (info@quickorganizeme.com) (11/11/2002 10:00 AM): Bye everyone and thanks so much for the feedback!

Tamra (tamra@hcstudios.com) (11/11/2002 10:01 AM): have a nice veteran's day US folks! otherwise, happy Monday!

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 10:01 AM): You are welcome Frederick

Weber jajagroup.com (11/11/2002 10:02 AM): Take care all

Frederick (bspage.com) (11/11/2002 10:02 AM): And Bye all!