RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:00 AM): Coffee's hot, economy's cold...what's up with you guys?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:00 AM): Greetings Rob and everyone!

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:00 AM): Entered the room.

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:01 AM): not much. I wrote an article and am trying to get it published online. Don't know how to go about it though

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:01 AM): Cynthia, that's like being all dressed up for a party with no place to go.

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:02 AM): grin... well, I'm going to be turning my website into a resource site in addition to it being my web design business site. I'm going to put the article there for starters.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:02 AM): I'll tell you one trick that can really help, though....you've got to peddle more than one article. Otherwise, people think you're a one hit wonder.

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:02 AM): That was my primary reason for writing it. But I'd like to get a few other sites picking it up as well

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:03 AM): It's about how free hosting is detrimental to business sites.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:03 AM): If people see you have only one article, they immediately suspect it to be too self-promotional.

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:03 AM): excellent point

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:04 AM): I get about five e-mails a week from people peddling their article to FrankelBiz for publication. I guess they don't realize we're not for discussion.

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:04 AM): grin...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:04 AM): I think that they all come from the Ezine directory, where they harvest contact addresses hoping to give away their content.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:05 AM): Now, a slower but better way to go is to build a library of content and then offer it for distribution/syndication for free. That's easy.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:05 AM): Actually, there are plenty of ezine publishers out there looking for content - you can submit your article to the ones that deal with Internet business.

Elizabeth (7/9/2001 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:06 AM): And write more articles while you wait to hear back from them *grin*

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:06 AM): where can I find a directory of such ezines Terri?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:06 AM): Brandi Jasmine does this really well. She uses a public domain javascript (there are tons of them) that lets people paste in the script and automatically display her content.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:07 AM): Finally, go on to the major advertising discussion lists and let them know that the content is available....you'll get a few takers and a chance to publicize yourself in front of a few thousand people....

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:08 AM): http://mediapeak.com is one site to check, Cynthia. Rob, Will Bontrager (sp?) also offers those scripts.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:09 AM): Holy cow, I just realized that Del and I are the only two guys here today. This clinic is turning into "the View".....Tee hee

Del (7/9/2001 9:09 AM): :-)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:10 AM): Anyway, I got started when Clickz was just getting started. Now it looks as if internet.com is going to trash them...

Del (7/9/2001 9:11 AM): Yeah. I'm not all too happy about that.

Del (7/9/2001 9:11 AM): I do like the concepts presented by Eisenberg though.

Del (7/9/2001 9:11 AM): Lindstrom on the other hand doesn't impress me all that much.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:12 AM): I think you should all expect to see a BIG shakeout coming down this fall....Listbot free service is going down and many free discussion lists are doomed, too.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:12 AM): NOBODY at internet.com impresses me much.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:12 AM): Hey Rob, thanks for the great advice in FrankelTips today!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:13 AM): Did you find it helpful? It must have struck a nerve...already have two e-mails in the old in box.....

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:14 AM): Eisenberg is great! I follow his articles on Clickz all the time and have talked to Jeff and Bryan for advice on my own website

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:14 AM): Definitely helpful, Rob! It's hard to brand yourself when you use free services <grin>

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:14 AM): Eisnebergs aren't managers, they're contributors. The management sucks.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:15 AM): Terri, WestHost is as close as you can get to free. I like them.

Del (7/9/2001 9:15 AM): Jeff's simple POA info helped me just last week (after I added some new "features").

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:16 AM): I use Jumpline and get autoresponders there too Rob. Will check out WestHost too!

Del (7/9/2001 9:16 AM): I've been with WestHost since 1999. Other then a few glitches (Pacbell DNS problem and a WestHost server switch) things have been great.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:17 AM): I think WestHost charges something like $100 for the year, plus all the maillist services and autoresponders and shopping cart....

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:17 AM): Terri -- thanks for that mediapeak link!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:17 AM): And the guys are great. Very helpful.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:17 AM): BTW, does anyone know of any friends with a flirting, romantic kind of site that wants to participate in a free ad test?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:18 AM): Did you talk to Robert, Rob?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:18 AM): We're looking for products and services that couples would send to each other, or products/services that are vital to improving a relationship.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:18 AM): We're scheduled to talk, Terri, thanks.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:19 AM): Could be anything from cute to suggestive.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:19 AM): Or, per my own tastes, incredibly crass.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:20 AM): Glad it helped! You're welcome, Elizabeth! Do a search on yahoo groups too - look for ezines that target your market.

Del (7/9/2001 9:20 AM): Rob: When you work with Etailers on their online branding initiatives, do you handle interface/usability as part of the branding process or do you leave that up to their IT/web people?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:21 AM): Del, I absolutely work on interface and usability. It's a critical part of the brand. Very important.

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:21 AM): oops! sorry Elizabeth! that was meant for Cynthia (blush)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:21 AM): In fact, I usually conference with the IT people to discuss how the data should be organized, retrieved and displayed.

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:22 AM): grins @ Terri

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:22 AM): Terri -- does your site ever get posts from companies looking for offsite workers?

Elizabeth (7/9/2001 9:22 AM): Terri that's ok I was just confused.. I know it's Monday but I don't usually post and forget!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:23 AM): You'd be amazed at how many people think that the brand is only the name and tagline. But as I discuss a lot, the brand lives in the details.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:23 AM): And there's just as much branding going on INSIDE and under the GUI as out there, in front of the public.

rblaze@keyisit.com (7/9/2001 9:23 AM): Entered the room.

Del (7/9/2001 9:23 AM): That's my current project -Site redesign. Concentration on unifying the brand across all pages (including of course, the interface).

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:24 AM): Cynthia, I do get posts for virtual office - in Sales and Marketing though - not web design. Okay, Rob - we won't talk about it now <grin>

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:24 AM): Really important, Del...

Del (7/9/2001 9:24 AM): I was reevaluating my site from a new prospect perspective and found it severely lacking in the "Oh, that's easy to understand" department. Thus a rework.

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:24 AM): ok. thanks Terri :)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:25 AM): Hi RBlaze....feel free to jump in any time. We let the new guys go first.

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Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:26 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:27 AM): Del, the more biz you do on the web, the more important it becomes. I STILL rework my site every month or so because I find stuff I overlooked...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:27 AM): Well, RBlaze, that hardly qualifies as a question, but as a plug, I suppose it would be pretty hard to beat....

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:28 AM): Anyone else?

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:28 AM): rblaze -- you developed proposalkit? I've been looking at purchasing it.

Del (7/9/2001 9:28 AM): Rob: Mine's a complete overhaul. New layout (going to 720 pixels wide). New navigation system. Pop-up instant help system. Cardpath builder (let's people build their custom postcards section by section instead of overwhelming them with an ALL-IN-ONE design template).

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:28 AM): This is not about branding, but I have a problem with someone stealing my web content. Could I seek advise here?

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:29 AM): Frederick -- what kind of content are they stealing?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:29 AM): Del, going to 720 pixels is going to make a lot of people have to do horizontal scroll.

Del (7/9/2001 9:29 AM): <--Type A personality. Going crazy with the minute details and reworking images in PhotoShop TO DEATH.

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:30 AM): graphics, icons, business information, book reviews, etc

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:30 AM): Rob, I'm starting a networking group for entrepreneurs which I plan to expand into a licensing or franchise business within 5 years. Do you have any suggestions on how to build a brand at the outset. I'm right at the planning stage so this is THE time to address branding. Or is this too much to handle in one online discussion?

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:30 AM): have you written to the Frederick?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:31 AM): Bev, this is the right time. And we can go into some of it now if you like.

Del (7/9/2001 9:31 AM): I don't think "a lot" is accurate. A percentage, yes, but not necessarily "a lot". Windows is often installed with 800x600 display setting.

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:31 AM): Yes - seemed to make some initial headway, then they started removing it and refuse to reply now

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:32 AM): Great. What would you like to know?

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:32 AM): Del -- don't forget people w/ older computers though. 640 x 480 is still a viable resolution (unfortunately)

Nick (Nick@ortnerconsulting.com) (7/9/2001 9:32 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:32 AM): Well, I suppose you can start with what will make your network different?

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:32 AM): Frederick -- have you considered going to their host companies?

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:33 AM): If you go to networksolutions and do a whois on the domain name, you can usually find out who is hosting that domain name and contact them

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:33 AM): I haven't approached anyone but the offending party at this stage.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:33 AM): Cynthia, let's let Bev have the floor.....

rblaze@keyisit.com (7/9/2001 9:33 AM): If someone is stealing content, I would advise you to contact a copyright attorney for consultation.

Cynthia@WKDesign.com (7/9/2001 9:33 AM): sorry Rob.

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:33 AM): I haven't approached anyone but the offending party at this stage. Settlement

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:34 AM): It's different because when a referral is passed on to another member, the referee pays the referrer a 10% (or whatever percentage we decide) commission on the value of the job. No other group does that now and there's always a sense of guilt about not being able to return a referral.

weber emperorsherbologist.com (7/9/2001 9:34 AM): Entered the room.

weber emperorsherbologist.com (7/9/2001 9:35 AM): Good afternoon

Del (7/9/2001 9:35 AM): Frederick: You of course, can download excerpts from the US Library of Congress applying to statutory/federal rights related to copyrights (in this particular case, application to text and/or images.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:35 AM): Bev, how do you know that they feel guilty about the referral? And how do you police the referrals?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:35 AM): "police" the referrals...

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:36 AM): Because I'm in two networking group now and we have to bring a referral, a guest or a testimonial to each meeting. When someone passes a lead and you can't find one for them, there's little guilt there.

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:36 AM): Dell/Cynthia - let's let Bev have the floor

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:37 AM): Do you currently have a member base? How many are online -- or is this an online/non-line group?

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:37 AM): We will police the referral with three part forms. When a referral is passed a form gets filled out and one goes to the referred, one goes to the referee and one goes to the group administrator.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:38 AM): ...and finally, are you funded or are you bootstrapping it?

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:38 AM): No we're not online. We will meet once a month face-to-face. This is the best way I've found to build relationships. We will be responsible for meeting on a one-to-one basis throughout the month to further build relationships. I'm a firm believer in relationship-selling whether it's in your networking group or with your clients.

weber emperorsherbologist.com (7/9/2001 9:38 AM): Frederick, 1st print the page and make sure you have a hard copy of it in case you need it later. Make sure the date is on the page. 2nd write to the hosting ISP and ask about their copyright policy. Once you have that answer, save it then write to the offender and tell them you are going to turn them in and they may lose their hosting unless they immediately remove the material. You may also want to offer to sell them a license to use it.

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:39 AM): Definitely, bootstrapping it. But there's very low overhead.

weber emperorsherbologist.com (7/9/2001 9:39 AM): sorry Rob

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:41 AM): Okay, Bev, are you planning to make money from the ref fees? Or from membership?

Del (7/9/2001 9:41 AM): Bev: Are there additional 'selling' points other then the 10% referral and no-guilt/shame for NOT bringing in a referral or new member each meeting?

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:41 AM): From the membership.

Del (7/9/2001 9:42 AM): One member per industry? Yearly dues? Inter-member discounts?

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:42 AM): There's only one person per industry in each group so you lock out the competition. There's a month-to-month membership making is affordable even for a small business owner.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:43 AM): Bev, from what I can tell, you're going to have some stiff competition. So you'd better have your brand differentiation lined up now. Assuming there are lots of networking groups out there -- even those that pay referrals -- how is yours different? What solution do you provide that no others do?

Del (7/9/2001 9:43 AM): So the concept is to create regional/city "cells" (for lack of a better term).

Del (7/9/2001 9:44 AM): Kinda like BNS/BNA (something like that).

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:44 AM): Actual the 10% commission is a HUGE advantage because it creates passive income for other small business people and I think people would refer to someone if they are getting rewarded for it.

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:45 AM): Yes, the concept will be spread to each municipality within my district and then licensed elsewhere and I take a percentage of the month dues a part of licensing agreement

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:45 AM): Bev, but if this is really microbusinesses, how much is 10% worth? I guess what I'm getting at is the kind of businesses that are enlisting. Are these micro or small businesses?

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:46 AM): Actually NO other groups right now pay referrals and I belong to the two largest.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:47 AM): I understand the franchising aspect. That's a no-brainer. But there's a real perception issue here that is the barrier to sale. If I join and refer pieces of business worth $10K or more, we're talking okay money. But if it's referring instant printing for $32.68, 10% is no big deal.

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:47 AM): Businesses can be anywhere from web designers to printers to hot tub manufacturers/sales. Any everything in between.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:47 AM): I'm trying to get to your target audience, which is where the brand begins.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:49 AM): Bev, reality and perception are two different things. I think your brand is going to have to first deal with the common notion of networking groups as a whole, THEN build on what yours is -- and is not.

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:49 AM): I don't think the amount is the issue, it's different than any other group and it takes the guilt out of the referral process--making it a purely business transaction. Plus we're only meeting once a month instead of every week at 7:00 am. Yikes, that's really early for most people.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:50 AM): This is what I did with FrankelBiz. The first thing I did was let people know it was a discussion list (a term they knew) that PROHIBITED discussion. That's what got the interested and differentiated it.

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:50 AM): The target audience is entrepreneurs or anyone who has control over their income (I think that's the target audience anyway)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:50 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Del (7/9/2001 9:51 AM): Bev: Where are you and how are you planning to marketing the network to your target audience?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:51 AM): What's the membership fee?

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:51 AM): $25/month

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:52 AM): So they have to be sure that they can earn at lest $25 a month in business and referral fees.....

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:52 AM): Is there an online component? There really should be.....

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:53 AM): I'm in Vancouver, B.C. right now and I plan to use broadcast fax, a viral e-mail campaign, The Chamber of Commerce, Board of Trade (of which I'm members of), my group coaching program and I have a few other ideas up my sleeve. Most of these are free or are services I can get on barter.

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:53 AM): Yes, definitely an online component will be part of the marketing mix.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:53 AM): Well, bev, overall, I'd say that we have a lot to talk about, but probably off chat. Lots of issues here.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:54 AM): In the remaining minutes, does anyone have anything else, or can we continue with Bev?

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:54 AM): That would be great!

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:54 AM): Continue with Bev - this is good!

Del (7/9/2001 9:55 AM): Bev: Only one "fine line" info I can give: When it gets to the US stage, be overly-cautious about folks engaged in real estate/lending transactions. RESPA codes classify referrals paid (anything of value) is a criminally -punishable offense.

Del (7/9/2001 9:55 AM): This relates to agent-to-agent transactions.

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:56 AM): Del, really, that's good to know.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:56 AM): Okay, Bev...it sounds to me that you may be underestimating your battle plan. Have you tested this concept to anyone other than your friends and family?

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:56 AM): Dell They would like you to believe that, but it's not exactly true

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:56 AM): And finally, do you have name for this entity yet?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:56 AM): name

Del (7/9/2001 9:56 AM): Frederick: Are you licensed in CA?

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:56 AM): No, that's my next step. I plan to have a focus group consisting of some of my other networking group people--to get feedback, ideas, etc.

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 9:57 AM): Yes, I have a name but I'm not sure if I should plaster it all over the chat line (a but paranoid aren't I)?

rblaze@keyisit.com (7/9/2001 9:57 AM): It would be interesting to have a reference to the legalities of broadcast communications, i.e. broadcast FAX, broadcast e-mail, etc... Many people are offended by "spam", and I know in the U.S. there are laws about junk-Faxing...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:57 AM): Bev, you may want to hold off on that. Chances are you'd be better off developing your brand first, getting initial reaction to it in that group. Then, let them add to it.

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 9:58 AM): Del, I used to be licensed in Texas. And they want you to believe that here, too.

Del (7/9/2001 9:58 AM): Bev: I really like your idea for the network group. (It's not useful to my current business, but a line of b2b/b2c greeting cards could use that type of group).

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:58 AM): (TWO MIINUTES)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:58 AM): Always thinking aren't ya Del?

Terri Robinson (recruit2hire.com) (7/9/2001 9:59 AM): Rob, great chat today! Thanks everyone for all the good info! See you next week.

Del (7/9/2001 9:59 AM): Frederick: Whether you choose to believe it or not, it does happen. I get the quarterly newsletter from CADRE and loads of people get fines and lose their license.

Del (7/9/2001 9:59 AM): <--Never turns off the business mind.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 9:59 AM): Okay, folks, that does it for me! Thanks for sharing your summer with me! I'll see you online!

Del (7/9/2001 10:00 AM): One day, Rob, I'll even have a greeting card designed specifically for you to give out to prospects.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (7/9/2001 10:00 AM): That'd be cool! It better have a holographic Bobbing Head.

Del (7/9/2001 10:01 AM): Hey. We can always use a spring to have your head move when the card is shaken. :-)

Frederick (bspage.com) (7/9/2001 10:01 AM): Thanks, Rob - Bye all.

Bev Hunter (bhunter@hcg.ca) (7/9/2001 10:02 AM): Thanks Rob for your insights!