RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:00 AM): Summer time....and the Clinic is open!

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

Mickie editor@ereleases.com (6/25/2001 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:02 AM): Anyone can start it off today...hopefully, the new guys will go first!

Frederick (SmallBizSearch) (6/25/2001 9:03 AM): Entered the room.

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:03 AM): I work for a packaging co. The co. owners expect to see a response to each ad they place. What is reasonable to expect an ad to do?

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:04 AM): Hi Elizabeth! An ad alone can't do much. Your owners need to recognize that advertising is a campaign over time. Most people don't even realize they've seen an ad until they see it three times...

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:05 AM): Good morning all!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:05 AM): on the other hand, there are some ads that can pull the first time they run. The only way to show your owners what works is by tracking the ads.

Del (6/25/2001 9:05 AM): Entered the room.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:05 AM): Rob-congratulations on your Amazon Position and Sales

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:06 AM): You can do that with different responses mechanisms, like differ 800 numbers to call, or different offers in each ad.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:06 AM): Elizabeth - what 'kind' of ads are you using?

Mark P-R (www.p-rposters.com) (6/25/2001 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:06 AM): Thanks, Joe. These days, the book isn't quite as high as it was last year, but it still sells quite well through my own site.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:07 AM): Which is actually how I prefer it -- amazon doesn't share customer data with publishers.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:07 AM): Also, Elizabeth, to whom are you advertising?

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:07 AM): Elizabeth, #1, are your ads in front of the ideal audience...if not, change media.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:07 AM): Rob - I'll remember that for *when* I buy your book ;-)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:08 AM): Jodie, I can take your order right now, Mastercard or VISA?????

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:08 AM): We've been using print ads in a trade mag(Rob I know what you think about trade mags but this is a good one with paid circ. ) I want to move us in a direction of more branding-type marketing, for. ex. a girl in a sandwich board at a trade show. But our targets are only the top execs. at big companies. and I don't know if this will even be effective.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:09 AM): Yikes! My two favorite pet peeves: trade shows and trade mags! NEITHER will hit the CEO

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:09 AM): #2 Doe your ads offer a promise of self-interest to your ideal prospect?

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:09 AM): Rob - depends on which one gets turned down *sigh*

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:09 AM): Elizabeth, you're much better off taking the same money and sending each CEO a custom package that gets delivered to his or her desk.

Frederick (SmallBizSearch) (6/25/2001 9:10 AM): Do you really want to hit the CEO first? Many take their advice from people lower down the food chain

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:10 AM): Elizabeth... cozy up to the executive assistants. Really. I was one.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:10 AM): I don't suggest that lightly. When I was in advertising, we did a study and found that we got much more attention sending each CEO a package than trying to fight for attention at a trade show.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:10 AM): I agree with Rob, Direct Mail will get directly to your target

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:11 AM): Yes, Fred, but the lower-downs take advice much more seriously when it comes from the CEO!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:11 AM): Elizabeth, Jodie is right about the assistants, too. Depending on your morals, you can get them to do a lot....need I say more, heh heh....

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:11 AM): One of my biggest challenges with my new position is to clarify our message. The co. owners have a really hard time not telling everything one never wanted to know about packaging in our ads and the message of self-interest gets lost.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:11 AM): Of course, if they're really cute, you could end up marrying them.

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:12 AM): In our case the decision comes from the CEO or other top-level executive.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:12 AM): Are you trying to confess something Rob? :-)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:12 AM): Elizabeth, I feel your pain. This is why I wrote the DIY corollary. THAT's the bigger problem. The ad thing is just a symptom.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:13 AM): OKAY, CLEAR THE DECKS FOR A SELF SERVING PLUG:

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:13 AM): We use "the Phil factor" to get in the door but for some reason that's not getting us the business.

Frederick (SmallBizSearch) (6/25/2001 9:13 AM): I agree the CEO makes the decision, but they hire people to do the legwork

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:13 AM): Jodie, one day, we'll have a no-holds-barred clinic....for adults only.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:13 AM): Yes - the final decision comes from the CEO - but the Exec. Assist. really, really have a lot of pull

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:14 AM): Sign me up!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:14 AM): Elizabeth, I kid you not, this is one reason I wrote my book. I get a lot of people in your position who put the book on their senior management's desk.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:14 AM): The book reflects their point of view, but because it comes from a third party, there's no threat...and no sales pressure. The message comes through.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:14 AM): Elizabeth, what are you selling, what's the "Big Promise that you offer, and what are the results of that promise, when the client receives that promise delivered?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:15 AM): Joe, Elizabeth's problem isn't the product -- it's her management team.

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:16 AM): I'm putting a request for your book on his desk, after I've read it hopefully there are some quick and easy hits I can pull out of it to bring him over to the simple message side. DIY is the ONLY way of life around here. .

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:16 AM): Tactically, Elizabeth, your managers are looking to cover their butts by showing payout from the ads, so you must track them. But that's not the real issue here. Your is a political issue.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:17 AM): Interestingly, life being a branding problem, this wouldn't occur if the company had a strong brand. There would be a "branded" way to approach CEO's and so forth.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:17 AM): understood

Mickie (editor@ereleases.com) (6/25/2001 9:17 AM): Entered the room.

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:17 AM): This is a small co. and the managers are the owners --it's not butt-covering but a matter of "That check I wrote for the ads came directly out of my hose in Europe fund and what did it get me.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:17 AM): That "branded" method would be approved by everyone in the company, because they all would say, "THAT'S SO COOL! GREAT IDEA!"

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:18 AM): sorry-- that was a LOT of typos

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:18 AM): Most people don't even know that branding does as much good INSIDE companies as it does outside...(<PLUG>; This is what the tapes talk about </PLUG>)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:19 AM): Elizabeth -- that's STILL covering their butts. Understandable. Nobody wants to explain why they wrote a check for something that didn't work.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:19 AM): Not even to themselves.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:19 AM): Elizabeth - what is the company again?

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:20 AM): everyone has to be on the same page

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:20 AM): When you think about the gross amount of dollars they'd spend, there are a lot of ways to spend those bucks more effectively.

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:20 AM): Back to the trade show/trade mag thing-- what do you think is a better forum for branding to a wide audience or do you think direct mail is the only way to go?

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:21 AM): We're a company that manages the production of packaging for companies that have factories in Asia and South America

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:21 AM): If I were in the packaging business, I'd FEDEX a sample of the most impossible packaging I could every two weeks to decision makers. I'd target narrowly.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:22 AM): At a trade show, I'd make sure to leave a bizarre package inside the hotel rooms BEFORE the show starts.

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:22 AM): Those are two really good ideas.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:22 AM): I use to do really cool "leave-aheads". Blew people's minds.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:23 AM): If you do need to take out ads, use them to generate leads. Sell people on raising their hand

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:23 AM): Elizabeth, just imagine how many more you could get if you were a paying client!! <---in a mercenary mood today

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:23 AM): Tee Hee

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:23 AM): I feel really dumb but what does 'sell people on raising their hand' mean?

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:23 AM): I spoke with a guy who used to do cell phone sales in Germany - they custom-made cell-phone gummies and had customers calling on a regular basis to get more gummies.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:24 AM): The question is, Jodie, can you turn gummies into bucks?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:25 AM): Dan, you still here?

Del (6/25/2001 9:25 AM): Design ads that get inquiries (get them to respond)...Not image ads (like IBM Websphere has been doing).

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:25 AM): Rob I think getting my boss to pay for your book will be the first step!

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:25 AM): They did - they had regular, positive contact with their clients, and kept that "top of mind" position

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:26 AM): It does help, Elizabeth. Takes the ego thing out of the loop. Gets you both on a level playing field.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:26 AM): Have them call in for a free report, or to schedule time with a sales consultant...Call for a no obligation conversation with one of our trusted advisors to help see if this makes sense for you...there's no cost or obligation of any kind to pick up the phone and call

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:26 AM): I think he got an internal award or something, but I could be mistaken

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:26 AM): Jodie brings up a good point -- staying top of mind is important in sales. but do remember that awareness and branding are NOT the same thing.

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (6/25/2001 9:27 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:27 AM): Once you create the brand, through, thinking up ways to raise awareness becomes WAY easier.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:28 AM): Del also brings up a good point -- your ads have to be designed to work right now...not some weird, spooky image ad.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:29 AM): That doesn't mean you have to sell hard or give away the store. It means the ad has to be actionable. The end user has to see that.

Del (6/25/2001 9:29 AM): Some form of call to action. :-) (Tell me what you want me to do.)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:30 AM): Anyone else? Or should we keep going?

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:30 AM): Rob- How do you create a customer "bias towards action" with a brand?

Frederick (SmallBizSearch) (6/25/2001 9:31 AM): Tell us why awareness and branding are not the same thing

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:31 AM): Well, I have a remote possibility of major funding for my new business... anything on the branding side I should think about before giving my spiel?

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:31 AM): Thanks so much for everyone's help!!!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:32 AM): Fred: First you create the brand, then you raise its awareness.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:32 AM): You're welcome Elizabeth!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:32 AM): Good question, Joe. If you believe as I do about branding being about getting them to see you as a solution to THEIR problem, the action is already there.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:32 AM): No prob, Elizabeth.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:33 AM): They're already in the process of seeking a solution. Your providing it gives them impetus to move forward on it.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:34 AM): Jodie, branding is critical to funding. I maintain the brand belongs in the business plan, because it lets investors know you've woven together your management properly.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:34 AM): This is why I always write the Business Plans from a branded perspective. Even the layout of the document changes with the brand.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:35 AM): Also, the more defined the brand is, the more granular the business description is. So your readers and investors say, "Ma, they've really thought this thing out!"

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:35 AM): Oops. "Man"

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:35 AM): I guess what I *really* need to do is buy your book then... so that I really understand how to put my brand "in words". I still have a lot to learn...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:36 AM): THEN, when they ask for the face to face meeting, they're delighted to see you living the brand you propose they fund.

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:36 AM): Hey, if you've got them talking to their mothers about you you're really on to something LOL!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:36 AM): Blows their minds!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:37 AM): Elizabeth, I'll do ANYTHING to get funding!!!

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:37 AM): Again, I ask you Rob... confessing something? ;-)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:37 AM): ?

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:38 AM): "I'll do ANYTHING to get funding!!!"

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:38 AM): Hey, a good Marine does what he has to...unfortunately, I wasn't in the marines.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:38 AM): So, if I understand your question, as long as they perceive a problem, frustration, or pain, they can connect you as the solution...What if they have a pain or need, and don't perceive it themselves?

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:39 AM): ...then I would have to show them that others have that pain/need and want to pay for a solution

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:39 AM): Joe! You sweetheart! THAT'S why you should subscribe to FrankelTips. There was a whole article on that in today's issue!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:39 AM): Disclaimer: Joe was not planted in today's discussion to let me plug that. I swear.

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:40 AM): That's the exact problem in my industry -- many don't care if their packaging is inconsistent or arrives at retail scuffed or torn.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:40 AM): yw for the plug

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:40 AM): OK I'll add FrankelTips to my request

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:40 AM): Elizabeth, they could if you showed them how much it costs them.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:41 AM): Great minds think alike!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:41 AM): The one thing that I'm amazed at is that, regardless of industry or size of company, LEADERSHIP is the missing link. In fact, I'm toying with that as a concept for my next book.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:42 AM): Also, Elizabeth, you have to walk that tightrope and discern which clients are good prospects and which are bad business.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:43 AM): A company that doesn't care about their packaging is not going to invest heavily in it. They're not your best prospects.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:44 AM): You want the guys who play for the long haul. Who understand that packages crushed at retail end up being returned by retailers at cost plus shipping.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:44 AM): I agree with Rob there - don't just go for 'any' business

azreporter.com (6/25/2001 9:44 AM): Entered the room.

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:45 AM): It's an industry wide phenomenon. Some of the major players care and use our service, others just care about the cost. We don't have any real major competitors providing what we do. that's why we are looking at moving into other industries where branding and packaging have a much higher profile.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:45 AM): It's true: bad business costs you more in both time and money than it was ever promised to earn.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:46 AM): Amen to that Rob (experience talking here...)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:47 AM): Unfortunately -- and this is the refrain I keep singing -- most people are really good at running their businesses, but don't realize they're horrible at marketing and selling the,. And branding takes first position before either of those two.

Jodie-ScoreBrowniePoints.com (6/25/2001 9:48 AM): I must scoot - the 'boss' is calling. Thanks for everything!

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:49 AM): Truer words! I see that from our prospects' perspective and from our own! Bye Jodie and thanks.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:49 AM): No prob.....TEN MINUTE WARNING -- Who's up next?

Mark P-R (www.p-rposters.com) (6/25/2001 9:52 AM): Rob ... just wanted to let you know after last weeks chat I took your advice and included some poster graphics on my entry page ...

Mark P-R (www.p-rposters.com) (6/25/2001 9:52 AM): I like the look much better ...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:52 AM): Really? Let's check it out....

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:52 AM): If no one else is going to post -- I'm totally going to do a killer leave-ahead. Back to the Exec. Assistants -- do you think they'll tell me what hotel the boss is staying in if I tell them I'm sending a gift?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:54 AM): SOOOOO much better! At least now I know what I came for!

Mark P-R (www.p-rposters.com) (6/25/2001 9:54 AM): thanks for the insights ...

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:54 AM): Thank You Rob

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:54 AM): Elizabeth, they'll take your stuff and deliver it for you to the proper rooms, but won't tell you the actual room number

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:54 AM): Mark: why is the poster graphic sliced?

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:55 AM): That's fine -- a much as some around here would like to and it's Vegas, we aren't' sending hookers so the room no. won't matter -- the hotel can deliver it.

Mark P-R (www.p-rposters.com) (6/25/2001 9:55 AM): I thought it would speed load times ...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:56 AM): Let's not underestimate the branding value of hookers, however....

Del (6/25/2001 9:56 AM): LOL. Service providers.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:56 AM): Your Affiliate link is on my website-under "Branding"

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:57 AM): In this day and age it's so easy to send the wrong...make and model.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:57 AM): Mark...I'm STILL subsisting on dial up. Sliced images may load a tiny bit faster, but not always. In fact, watching them piece together as the server calls them can actually seem slower than one interlaced GIF or JPG

Mark P-R (www.p-rposters.com) (6/25/2001 9:57 AM): good point ...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:58 AM): But the important thing is that I now immediately know your shop's solution.

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 9:58 AM): no sales yet, but I endorsed your link to my 1700 ezine subscribers

Del (6/25/2001 9:58 AM): Rob: That's also because of IE only being able to download 4 images at a time (default setting).

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:58 AM): Thanks, Joe.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Elizabeth (6/25/2001 9:59 AM): Mark I'll go look at your site right now. Happy Branding all!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 9:59 AM): Del, I always figure that everyone keeps their default settings. Safest way to design.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (6/25/2001 10:00 AM): Okie doke, folks. Great session today! I'll be offline for a few days, but back this week!

Joe@RapidResultsMarketing.com (6/25/2001 10:00 AM): ty

Frederick (SmallBizSearch) (6/25/2001 10:00 AM): Bye all