Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:03 AM): Sorry I'm late.....post Father's Day hangover....

Tamra (www.HCstudios.com) (6/17/2002 9:03 AM): Not much -- hey look, Rob's here!

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:04 AM): Eh, now the party can start, Rob!

Tamra (www.HCstudios.com) (6/17/2002 9:04 AM): Small group so far...

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:04 AM): Well, obviously that's affecting many this morning.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:04 AM): Hey, it's the second week in June, so now the weirdness REALLY begins. The official beginning of vacation season, which means it's even tougher to do business.....

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:05 AM): It may be that a few people show up. No big deal.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:05 AM): Let's talk about self-promotion Rob.

Tamra (www.HCstudios.com) (6/17/2002 9:05 AM): We've got a couple of new projects recently, but immediately the client contacts left on vacation. Weird way to run a project...

Jeffrey (sales@tracertags.com) (6/17/2002 9:06 AM): Entered the room.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:06 AM): Jeffrey -- got info for you, lost your phone number!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:06 AM): Okay, janeine, let's do. It's a subject (as you know) near and dear to my heart.

Jeffrey (sales@tracertags.com) (6/17/2002 9:07 AM): great I'll call you thanks

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:07 AM): Ah yes. Well, any advice is most welcome. I've ended up, once again, scraping the bottom of the barrel for more customers. The usual networking isn't working. Any suggestions?

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:07 AM): Entered the room.

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:08 AM): Hi Rob, everyone

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:08 AM): Janiene, this is the worst business climate I have seen in 15 years. It's really bad out there. Which means people like you and me have to do the one thing we hate most.....

mark (6/17/2002 9:09 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:09 AM): ....start getting serious about a strong sales program.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:09 AM): No, not what we hate most... drinking tequila while standing on our heads?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:10 AM): The networking isn't working because you (like many of us) have probably reached the limits of your network. It's time to expand your market reach so that the numbers start playing in more of your favor.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:10 AM): Rob, please outline a strong sales program. I have the urge to perform strong sales.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:10 AM): Hate to disagree with you, but I spent the last weekend drinking a lot of tequila, and it was pretty good, headstands or not!

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:11 AM): Yes, networking isn't working... same group, same 60-second pitch, etc. They know what I can do, just they think they can do it "in-house" better.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:11 AM): Okay, Janiene: First thing to realize is that you're out of gas. That's a very emotional decision. It's like being sick and finally asking someone for help.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:11 AM): Don't you hate it when the tequila comes out your nose?

Jeffrey (sales@tracertags.com) (6/17/2002 9:12 AM): That's emotional

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:12 AM): It's very scary, but what I did was dig up a few bucks as a war chest (even if it means getting a loan) and finding a pro who can help you. I decided on a publicist and a sales lead generation service.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:12 AM): And not very lady-like either.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:13 AM): Ahh.. are we talking about jumping on the PR wagon? I do that for my customers.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:13 AM): NEITHER of them are instant results, by any means. The publicist requires months of prep and pitching; the leads derived from sales don't buy the first or second time, either. I just wrote a piece on this in FrankelTips this morning, BTW.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:14 AM): BTW I finally dug up the money and signed up for FrankelTips... best money spent ever!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:14 AM): Janiene, we're talking about taking at least one to two hours every day and reaching out to completely new strangers, pitching their business.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:15 AM): Rob, what are the most effective pitches? Cold in-person calls, literature? Anything more creative than that?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:15 AM): Believe me, the best advice I got from Patrick, my sales guy, was that there are two things you need to make a sale: Persistence and timing. Thank god we have e-mail merge software.....

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:15 AM): Entered the room.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:16 AM): I know you've said that much of your business is generated over the web. Tell me more... got the software already.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:16 AM): Janiene, I personally don't want accounts that aren't e-mail oriented.. I don't have the time to pitch people on the phone. I save my time for talking to hot and warm leads. Those guys are worth it.

Jeffrey (sales@tracertags.com) (6/17/2002 9:16 AM): I have been at this process for 8 months and I am just starting to see some daylight

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:17 AM): Do you generate your lists in-house or purchase them? What makes a good "pitch list?"

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:17 AM): How do you generate your lists, Jeffrey?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:18 AM): Me too, Jeffrey.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:19 AM): What I also do is blast out the e-mail follow ups once every two weeks. Just enough to stay in front of them so that when the need does arrive, I'm top of mind.

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:19 AM): I have 2 companies...12 months just seeing light on the first one...six months on the other

Jeffrey (sales@tracertags.com) (6/17/2002 9:19 AM): I am constantly looking for new lead sources, and doing tons of cold calls. It could derive from the newspaper or on a trip to Office Depot. I am on all the time .

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:20 AM): Jim, this is very validating. It's good for everyone to see that we're ALL going through the same thing.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:20 AM): Rob, I know you also moderate a list... I subscribe to it. And, we all know that a e-newsletter is popular too. What else?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:20 AM): In a week or so, I may introduce a FrankelBiz sponsor that makes those lists easy to get.....

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:20 AM): saw what u said about the last 15 months...this the worst in 20 years

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:21 AM): Jim, did I write that? I thought I wrote "the last 15 years". That's what I meant

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:21 AM): Well my timing, as usual, is bad. What a time to start a business.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:21 AM): Entered the room.

Jeffrey (sales@tracertags.com) (6/17/2002 9:21 AM): Rob, got to wait that long?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:22 AM): Janiene, that stuff is all fine and good. I moderate I-Branding to keep my name out there. But even that isn't enough. Those people already know me. The hard part is getting it up for contacting the really big, new accounts. The people who NEVER have heard about you, but really need you....

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:22 AM): Rob, I'd be interested in that new sponsor. There are so many "bad" list producers out there that I haven't even considered buying one.

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:22 AM): Janiene, actually it is a great time. If you can be successful now, you will be massively successful when things turn around.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:22 AM): Yeah, Jeffrey, it does take a long time. Often because it's one thing for them to realize they need you. It's another to educate them as to why they should pay you.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:23 AM): Exactly. It has taken me over 2 years of networking to educate people.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:23 AM): Yes, I'll be successful if my clients stay in business. They turn to me as the last resort... had one sign with me one week, go belly-up the next week.

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:23 AM): webber I agree 100%

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:23 AM): Anita, how do you educate these folks?

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:23 AM): just a lot of hard work

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:24 AM): Janiene, this list has been very productive for me. Even if I don't get actually business from it, I find that just making contact gets my name in front of people who need to see it. After that, I'm a familiar resource and that's important:

Jeffrey (sales@tracertags.com) (6/17/2002 9:24 AM): I guess we are back to showing the world we are the solution to their problems

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:25 AM): Janiene, just last week, my publicist was pitching some stuff to IBM and asked if they'd heard of me. They said "yes". So did the folks at Procter & Gamble. Everything else after that is a matter of timing.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:25 AM): We're always doing that Jeffrey!!!

Jeffrey (sales@tracertags.com) (6/17/2002 9:25 AM): Rob, any stats on how many of those emails never get read?

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:25 AM): Rob, to try to position myself as an expert, I've signed up to do Community Ed. evening classes in "Creative Solutions." I'll teach creativity exercises, hoping to drum up some business. But, that doesn't happen until September.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:26 AM): I also agree wholeheartedly that if you do the heavy lifting now, your business will boom later. And you might as well do this stuff now, instead of just moping around, right?

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:26 AM): It's the old musician thing, when you are not gigging you should be woodshedding

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:26 AM): Jeffrey, no stats, but I can tell you this: I get between a 3 and 4% response rate. Of those, about 2/3 say they aren't ready but are glad I contacted them.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:27 AM): Rob, how exactly did P&G and IBM know of you? Did they read your book, see you on a talk show? What's effective?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:27 AM): Janiene, you're thinking too small. Forget the local market. Go global. Nobody knows the difference, and there are a hell of a lot more business leads out there than there are in your home town.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:28 AM): Rob... please, some suggestions about going Global.

lvlady10@earthlink.net - www.woodworkersauction.com (6/17/2002 9:28 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:28 AM): Janiene, the book has helped tremendously, no question. It also helps that I never let a day go by without getting someone somewhere to reprint and article, review the book -- anything -- so that when people start searching on "branding", my name starts popping up everywhere they search.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:29 AM): Janiene, I give lectures, workshops, participate in discussion lists, and write articles.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:29 AM): Janiene: #1 suggestion is that you (like me) have to change your attitude and view YOURSELF as a global resource. Most of us are very scared of success and that's really what holds us back. Face it, if General Motors offered you a $50 million account, wouldn't it scare the hell out of you?

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:30 AM): Anita... sounds great. But lectures and workshops sound local. Discussion lists and writing articles sounds global. Any suggestions what lists to visit?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:30 AM): Speaking is good, but geographically limited and very costly unless you're getting professional speaker fees.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:31 AM): Janiene, throw your hat into the ring with guys like the Adventive group. You never know when they'll need a replacement Moderator.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:31 AM): Rob, right now a $5,000 account would make me soil my bloomers.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:31 AM): I had to start local and then expand.

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:31 AM): Rob If Gm offered me that I would jump at it in a second

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:31 AM): Hey, even this free clinic was a nutty idea when I started it. But I did start it.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:31 AM): Anita -- how did you expand?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:31 AM): Anita, the OLD MODEL is to start small and grow big. But the web lets you START global. Use that!

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:31 AM): Rob, P&G knew about you because you specifically critique them in your book.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:32 AM): having started the clinic, now the archives are among the most visited parts of the site and account for a lot of linkage out there.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:32 AM): So Rob -- if I copy your idea and give a free clinic on business promotion, how would I promote it. Just for conversation sake.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:32 AM): Anita, did you mean "critique" or "trash"? Tee Hee.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:32 AM): I AM global as far as archaeology goes. A lot of people in the field know me from my historical archaeology discussion list that I started in 1994.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:33 AM): In fact, I got an Award of Merit (no $) from the leading organization.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:33 AM): Janiene, this is why I promote Branded community so much. Anita, you should leverage whatever user base you have to your advantage. This is why I'm building i-legions.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:33 AM): I was being polite. ;)

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:34 AM): Archaeologists don't tend to have $.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:34 AM): Janiene, I'd offer myself up as a moderator or discussion leader in a place you've never been before. Try About.com and see what their requirements are. Go for a BIG name, not some teeny safe hiding place. Go where people can see you.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:35 AM): Anita, it's me, remember? The guy whose best article "Web Traffic and genital Size" just got turned down AGAIN for being "inappropriate"!!!!

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:35 AM): Yes, like a moth, head for the light. And, my natural tendency is to lurk in the shadows.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:35 AM): Also, Google Answers is hiring.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:35 AM): Rob, I'll publish it in my ezine.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:35 AM): Great suggestion Anita! Janiene, why aren't you there? Google is becoming huge.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:35 AM): Rob -- I can suggest several web sites that would JUMP at that article!

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:36 AM): I've been lurking around Goggle. No time like the present, eh?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:36 AM): Hey, Janiene, let me know. The reprint policy is free (conditionally) and now you know why.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:36 AM): Janiene, start an ezine. Or write for some of the successful ones.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:36 AM): The reprint policy is at http://www.RobFrankel.com/archive.html I think

lvlady10@earthlink.net - www.woodworkersauction.com (6/17/2002 9:36 AM): You need to try that one on the Adult Chamber of Commerce site.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:37 AM): I'll e-mail you Rob, after this discussion, about the web sites.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:37 AM): ALSO, Janiene, don't be afraid to contact people on discussion lists OFF LIST. They're the online activists. They'll interview you if you have something good for them.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:38 AM): Ok... I'm getting revved up now. Time to throw caution to the wind.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:38 AM): But you get the idea Janiene? Stay away from comfort. Or, "if it makes you comfortable doing it, you're doing the wrong thing." You need to go where you haven't been before. That's how you know you're meeting new people. That's very difficult for me personally, BTW.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:39 AM): How are your meta tags online?

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:39 AM): Well Rob, I think you've hit it on the head. And perhaps that is one thing we all have in common. We do what's Uncomfortable to be successful? Would everyone agree on that?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:39 AM): Janiene, what have you got to lose? As long as you focus your brand and keep your message really clear, the worst they can do is say no. Or tell you to go away.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:40 AM): We just have to get out of our comfort zone. This is why sales guys get the big bucks.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:40 AM): Comfort can be static.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:40 AM): Rob, if they don't pick me up and throw me out on the street, then it's been a good day! Rejection I can handle. Polite rejection means I'll be back later.

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:40 AM): there's only one way of making the un-comfortable feel good

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:41 AM): Janiene, simply STOP doing anything local. period. Take an hour to research where you can volunteer (or get paid) to moderate in front of thousands of people at a time. That's the best use of your time.

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:41 AM): like the commercial says---just do it

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:41 AM): What's that Jim?

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:41 AM): Janiene, take a look at www.odadinc.com

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:41 AM): AARRGGHH! The worst commercial on the planet -- Just Do It!!!

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:42 AM): Rob I have a question

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:42 AM): He has a wonderful web site, it is getting all sorts of awards. But, no leads.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:42 AM): Hey, I-Branding pays me nothing (even though they're supposed to). I don't care, though. Because I use it as a platform to -- what else -- plug my stuff.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:42 AM): Go ahead Weber

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:43 AM): Do you know of any discussion lists like Adventive that are for health, dieting, or diabetes?

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:43 AM): Also beauty and / or skin care

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:43 AM): Off hand, I don't. There are so many diet sites and stuff. If I were you, I'd go after the big boys like WebMD and iVillage to see what they have to offer.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:43 AM): Anita -- I've taken a quick look at it. How come no leads?

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:44 AM): There are newsletters from the big medical sites like WebMD, and RealAge.

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:44 AM): but you remember it Janiene- right?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:44 AM): Also, go to the ROOT servers, like sparklist and listchannel. Both host tons of list-driven clients

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:44 AM): I've been checking them out, but it seems to be to political.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:44 AM): Janiene, I think because his brand is not clear and he doesn't talk about what makes him different.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:44 AM): Weber, I'd also check AARP.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:45 AM): Jim -- yes, and cringe whenever somebody says, "just do it." The brand I love to hate. Hate and Love are so similar.

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:45 AM): Is there a way to find the lists that host on sparklist and listchannel?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:45 AM): Jim, with a mega-million dollar media budget, you can hammer anything into anyone's head/

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:45 AM): a fine line

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:45 AM): See, Rob, I did learn something from your book!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:46 AM): Weber, just go to Chirsotpher Knight at Sparklist and Sharon Tucci (a FrankelBee) at listchannel. Sharon's really great.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:46 AM): Anita, you get an "A" for the day!

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:46 AM): true on the budget....but some things don't always buy their way into your head

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:46 AM): I think the key is not just to be DIFFERENT, but to be DELIGHTFULLY DIFFERENT. whatcha think?

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:46 AM): Weber, e-mail me at sdpresidio@mindspring.com. As a reference librarian, I can help.

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:47 AM): OK, I'll try it. For the past few weeks I feel like I have been spinning my wheels looking for an active discussion group that accepts posts, etc.

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:47 AM): Thanks Anita, will do.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:48 AM): Well, Odadinc.com is different in that he gets paid for results, and not paid if no results.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:48 AM): Jim, your point was "you remember it". THAT you can buy your way into. You can buy your way into their heads, but not their hearts. That's the brand's job.

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:48 AM): true on the budget....but some things don't always buy their way into your head

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:48 AM): So, how is my slogan "Connecting Your Site to the Web"?

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:49 AM): And, I wonder out loud, how does he measure his results for his clients? Sounds a bit dangerous to me, unless you have a money tree in your back yard.

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 9:49 AM): my connection bounced...put my words out of order there

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:49 AM): He is an advertising agency.

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:49 AM): Anita, sounds like an ISP

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:50 AM): Anita, who DOESN'T do that? Too broad. Must be about why Anita "is the best solution to my problem."

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:50 AM): Well, pooh.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:50 AM): TEN MINUTE WARNING

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:50 AM): Anita, what exactly do you do?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:51 AM): Sorry, Anita, but "pooh" is already trademarked by Disney. Can't use that, either.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:51 AM): I am a search engine optimizer. I do the meta tags (title, description, keywords) for web sites and submit the sites to the search engines.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:51 AM): Tee hee

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:52 AM): And soon you will only be able to watch a rented movie of their s one time.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:52 AM): Anita -- good. Do you do something the others don't do?

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:52 AM): This is why, in my niche, education is soooo important.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:53 AM): I'm a hell of a lot cheaper. Oops, bad word.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:53 AM): weber, Disney is one of the clumsiest brands on the planet. Trust me, they're not restricting anything anywhere. I don't know if you guys read this over the weekend, but even the music companies are finally moving toward free downloads or burnable tunes

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:54 AM): My competitors all charge around $500 an hour.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:54 AM): Anita -- you aren't cheaper. You provide valuable services at a reasonable price.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:54 AM): The days of holding content hostage are dwindling.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:54 AM): I am aiming at small biz so my rates are lower, and have a good success rate.

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 9:54 AM): Rob, Didn't see that one. It's great news

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:55 AM): Anita -- are you charging enough?

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:55 AM): Janiene, want to write my ads?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:55 AM): Don't forget that price is often a statement of perceived value. BY undercharging people with whom you are NOT familiar/comfortable may view you as inferior.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:55 AM): Now, I am starting to charge in packages.

lvlady10@earthlink.net - www.woodworkersauction.com (6/17/2002 9:55 AM): But, Rob, what does that say about ebooks? Isn't that content hostage in an ebook format?

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:56 AM): Yes Rob -- I've learned about that the hard way. I now charge more, but it's all in the "packaging"

Tamra (www.HCstudios.com) (6/17/2002 9:56 AM): $500? Really? I wish...and yes, I do SEO. I'm lucky when my fixed price package works out to $62.50 per hour.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:56 AM): Anita, think about doing what I do: I slide my rates based on the client. (http://www.RobFrankel.com/about.html) And I think you're extremely smart to price by package. Much better.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:56 AM): Anita, I'd love to help you. I'm a writer, among 50 other things.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:56 AM): On the "about" page. there re hardly any references in real dollar amounts, on purpose.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:57 AM): Janiene, e-mail me and we will talk. I need to do a small classified ad.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:57 AM): I felt that telling people what I charge on the web page is not useful.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:57 AM): lvlady, my e-books sell just fine. At $14.95 per book, I view it more as people paying me to advertise for me. Even if they send it all to their friends, they're paying me! And I get to be in front of all their like-minded friends/prospects! Such a deal!

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:57 AM): Anita, why pay for ads? Ever thought of the "free PR" angle?

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:58 AM): Rob, I also slide my rates. Big clients get charged more.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 9:58 AM): TWO MINUTES

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:58 AM): It is free PR. I don't pay for ads.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:58 AM): Rob, you have a good point. Sliding rates and not hitting them with prices right away. Sell them so they believe they need you first.

lvlady10@earthlink.net - www.woodworkersauction.com (6/17/2002 9:58 AM): I'm glad to hear you say that, because it is something I want to introduce on our site.

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 9:59 AM): Lvlady, make sure you market to the right niche.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 9:59 AM): That's good... free PR is our best tool to promote ourselves. I've studied long and hard on that subject.

lvlady10@earthlink.net - www.woodworkersauction.com (6/17/2002 10:00 AM): Our site is niched to woodworkers and interior designers. The ebooks would have content along those lines. Tutorials if you will.

lvlady10@earthlink.net - www.woodworkersauction.com (6/17/2002 10:00 AM): Make that interior designers.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 10:00 AM): Okay you guys, see? Not a whole of people today, but WOW what a session!

Anita (mysearchguru.com) (6/17/2002 10:00 AM): I've gotta run. My daughter is graduating from 5th grade today!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (6/17/2002 10:00 AM): Congratulations! Okay have a great week and I'll see you online!

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 10:00 AM): by all

weber jajagroup.com (6/17/2002 10:01 AM): Take Care everyone

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 10:01 AM): Lvlady -- my husband is a cabinet maker, and is very frustrated by lack of info on the 'net. I'm sending him to your site today.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 10:01 AM): Thanks Rob. Again, you're worth your weight in gold.

lvlady10@earthlink.net - www.woodworkersauction.com (6/17/2002 10:01 AM): Thanks Janiene. Contact me off list too, because we are opening a gallery and may have need for a cabinetmakers skills.

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 10:02 AM): Ok... I'll e-mail you and Anita. Take Care.

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 10:02 AM): Janiene...send me some info on what u do...jmalone@mscmerchandise,cim

Jim Malone (www.mscmerchandise.com) (6/17/2002 10:03 AM): .com...sorry

Janiene (The No Ad Agency) (6/17/2002 10:03 AM): Ok, Jim. will do!