RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:00 AM): Greetings...is there really someone logged on as "."?

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:00 AM): (That's even worse than Prince's old/new name/symbol!)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:02 AM): "The FrankelBee formerly known as...."

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:02 AM): :) (grabbing a number and getting in line.)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:02 AM): Anyway, I managed to get here on time, so what's up?

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:03 AM): Explore America is an auto club, great benefits, great price, great thank you for joining gifts. But, I can't seem to give the stuff away.

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:03 AM): Rob, I am a newbie, so I'm open to suggestions.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:03 AM): Very unsuccessful results with direct mail, email, site sponsorship...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:04 AM): Matt, we always make time for the new folks. You can jump in right after Susan....

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:04 AM): Susan, is this your business or are you part of a bigger enterprise?

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:05 AM): It is part of a larger enterprise, UICI, in Dallas/Ft. Worth.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:05 AM): UICI is a life/health insurer that uses agency forces to sell.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:05 AM): What part do you and the site play in their picture?

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:05 AM): Explore America was intended to build a non-agency customer base for cross sales of non-agent insurance products.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:06 AM): (no agent commission = lower price)(industry believes that agents will be defunct within 5-10 years...testing the waters to get ready for the change)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:06 AM): Wow, there's a lot to fix here....first, why did you choose that name?

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:06 AM): However, Explore America services are backed by the National Motor Club.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:07 AM): Nationwide, in business for 50+ years....and owned by UICI and its principals.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:07 AM): Open road type of feeling....

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:07 AM): The NMC is a good tie-in. At least you have the tools you need to build the brand and back it up.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:08 AM): Susan, who named the site/service?

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:08 AM): I feel like this should have been a slam dunk....it was named by committee, Rob.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:08 AM): We're giving away $1,000 in grocery coupon certificates as a thank you, I'm marketing to women since they make the $$ decisions in the household.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:09 AM): And most of the members that sign up are women, late 20's to mid 40's.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:09 AM): Susan, I gotta tell you, there are a LOT of reasons why this site is not working. Committees, as you know, are the enemy of success.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:09 AM): Absolutely.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:09 AM): Did it ever occur to anyone on the committee that the site sounds like a tutorial for AOL?

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:10 AM): Rob, if I could make one change on the site that would have the most impact...what would it be?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:10 AM): Essentially, there's no brand here. And the home page doesn't help. It asks for the order way too soon.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:10 AM): (yes, that issue was raised, and promptly dismissed) (jeez)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:11 AM): Well, considering that your audience is coming from online sources, you can bet that the name already puts you two strikes behind.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:11 AM): (making notes.....)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:12 AM): So, to answer your "one change" question, I'd say the name has got to go.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:12 AM): (sighing) You make a good point. (darn it!)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:13 AM): The real tragedy is that you probably have such a huge treasure trove of services and values you can offer that members -- theoretically -- should be evangelizing to others. My guess is that your committee won't pay the branding guy to come in and build the brand....!!!

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:13 AM): Rob, my email is ssulkosky@uicimktg.com. Please feel free to send me your fee schedule.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:13 AM): This is part of the DIY corollary: "Doing it yourself works -- for suicide, but nothing else."

Del (5/14/101 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

Del (5/14/101 9:13 AM): Morning all.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:14 AM): <--has been banging head against this non-brand wall for a year now.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:14 AM): I will, Susan, but in the meantime, you can go to http://www.robfrankel.com/about.html

Frederick (the1960area.com) (5/14/101 9:14 AM): Entered the room.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:14 AM): Matt, do you have something for me to help with?

Del (5/14/101 9:14 AM): Disagree about the DIY corollary, but definitely agree the Explore American Online domain name sounds like a tutorial site.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:15 AM): Susan, I can fix it in less than a month, I bet.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:15 AM): Del, VERY few people escape the DIY corollary.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:15 AM): I'll do that today. Thanks, Rob. I'll look forward to hearing from you. (I'll take you up on that "less than a month"!)

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:15 AM): Rob, ours is a graphic design firm. We would like to be winning some victories TODAY!

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:16 AM): Entered the room.

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:16 AM): Hi all

Del (5/14/101 9:16 AM): Rob: Thanks for the clarification. Yes, MOST people, when given the ultimate opportunity, will completely undermine their own success.

Susan (www.exploreamericaonline.com) (5/14/101 9:16 AM): I'll leave you to it...have a great day everyone.

Del (5/14/101 9:16 AM): Morning Terry.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:17 AM): Matt, what's keeping you from that?

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:17 AM): We have worked for professional services firms (one of the Big 5). This has been our number one client for over ten years. With the economy as it is, it's clear that we need to broaden our client base.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:17 AM): Hello everyone!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:17 AM): Absolutely, Matt. You never want one client to be more than 30% (max) of your billings.

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:18 AM): Morning, Del -- agree with you on the DIY take :-)

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:18 AM): What's keeping us from that? In my opinion, it is consistency of marketing. We have depended on referrals, but we don't have much control over their flow.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:18 AM): <- wants to know if his branded mailing list idea will fly.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:19 AM): ACK! Referrals are tough. If you're on FrankelTips you may have read about Secret Weapon Syndrome....

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:19 AM): I'll have to find out about S.W.S.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:20 AM): But the truth is that referrals alone rarely work for graphic design and other non-vital consultancies. They're great for Vital Consultants, like attorneys and doctors and tax guys.

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:20 AM): Cold calling is another approach... What's your opinion on my ability to break into big firms with this?

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:20 AM): Matt, do you network via any of the Discussion Lists?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:20 AM): The best way I've found to spur referrals is to make it in the self-interest of those referring you.

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:21 AM): Terry, do you mean FrankelBiz lists?

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:21 AM): That's where 2/3 (maybe more) of my Web design work came from when I was more involved in it.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:21 AM): Personally, I've never had success with cold calls. But I have had success with FrankelBiz...in fact, do you see Joel Reymont on this chat right now?

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:21 AM): rrr

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:21 AM): don't ask me about cold-calling. the efficiency of that was very low :-(

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:21 AM): Rob I sure do!

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:22 AM): my cold-calling efficiency was very low

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:22 AM): maybe it was because I wasn't positioned right and maybe it was because I had a lot of competition in my general position

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:22 AM): Matt, Joel supplies seamless back end technology for designers. He and you should probably link up, because he's needing front end people. Front end people need his stuff.

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:22 AM): Matt: that's one, but not the only one. I contributed to a number of discussion groups, including I-Sales, I-HelpDesk, some Web design lists, etc., and by contributing appropriate info, or offering to help others, made some good contacts in the process.

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:22 AM): Joel and I exchanged a couple of e-mails on Friday...

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:23 AM): umm...

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:23 AM): ...thanks to your glowing recommendation and his passion for service

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:23 AM): oh we did?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:23 AM): Here's my take on cold-calling: If you cold call, you're selling, trying to persuade people they need you. I agree that's very inefficient. I prefer to respond well to people who have already expressed a need for my services.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:24 AM): Joel, you may want to take a closer look at those responses, eh? <G>

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:24 AM): oh, hi Matt! I sorry for not recognizing you at first!

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:24 AM): What's the alternative--how do you attract the interest?

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:24 AM): I did Rob :-) many responses thanks to you!

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:24 AM): Joel, I'm with Waldinger Creative (matt.clark@waldingercreative.com)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:25 AM): Anyway, my point in bringing it up is that a good relationship with someone whose self-interest you further will do much for you than a simple, "did you like what we did for you? Will you refer us business?" and other types of begging.

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:25 AM): Matt, in one case, I helped a fellow with his logo -- a plain B&W image that was loading in at some 300K. I took his image, cleaned it up and sent it back to him as about a 6K attachment. That was the beginning of a relationship now entering its fourth year, and some pretty good design and hosting fees between now and then.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:25 AM): I like that about furthering someone's self-interest

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:25 AM): Terry, is correct, too, Matt. You simply must raise your awareness through legitimate means, like discussion lists.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:26 AM): Matt, after that, it's all about -- guess what -- THE BRAND! Are you just another graphics firm? Why should I view you as the best solution to my problems? Do you even know what my problems are???

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:27 AM): So, Rob, I need to stay on top of the relationship.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:27 AM): ACK!! A flash intro????

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:28 AM): Matt, not only do you need to stay on TOP of the relationship, you need to DEVELOP it to begin with, particularly if you're talking about having one major client.

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:28 AM): Uh-oh, now I'm in trouble. The team here (and myself) have had positioning "challenges"...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:28 AM): Yikes, nothing inspires confidence like a message that begins, "if you DON'T see the animation,...."

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:29 AM): ...by which I mean that we seem to struggle to really understand how to define our USP...

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:29 AM): I have repositioned myself but suppose it will take time to realize the effects

Del (5/14/101 9:29 AM): Matt: Do you follow How (design magazine)? They offer solutions GA/Design firms have come up with to secure new business. Promotional literature, packaging, cards, etc.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:30 AM): so far the results have been ok in terms of building new relationships but have not translated into sales

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:30 AM): Matt, the Waldinger group is totally self-sabotaging themselves. In the first two frames, it's very generic. And people pay graphics firms to look distinctive...there's a disconnect there.

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:30 AM): ...Our clients seem most impressed by our president's ability to consult with them and develop innovative tools...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:30 AM): Joel, even instant oatmeal takes more than five minutes....

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:31 AM): Thanks for the tip, Del!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:31 AM): Matt, if that's the case, why isn't the Pres right up front there? If he's the difference, then push that!

Del (5/14/101 9:31 AM): No problem. It's a GREAT resource for ideas. (also on the web as howdesign.com)

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:32 AM): ...this is the "Strategy" section we refer to...

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:32 AM): Matt, I have defined my USP being able to handle the needs of designers

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:32 AM): I have no idea if it will work, though

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:32 AM): Joel et al, the branding solution is one that is definitely NOT a quick fix. It doesn't have to be a long drawn out process, though, either. The trick is launching a brand that's revenue-smart.

michael@tapinternet.com (5/14/101 9:33 AM): Entered the room.

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:33 AM): Rob, I agree.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:33 AM): Joel, I just had a client who wanted a guarantee. He wanted to be sure branding would work. That's silly. It's like asking a lawyer to guarantee a verdict.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:33 AM): Rob I like what you are saying but my bank account disagrees :-)

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:33 AM): what do you do when you need to bring in sales quickly?!

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:34 AM): while branding takes its time

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:34 AM): Oh, no, I was just reading about that. you have to make an investment into it

Del (5/14/101 9:34 AM): Joel: Rob made a great comment in a past chat, USP is about YOU, UBP (Unique Buying Position) is about THEM.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:34 AM): and then wait for results to take effect

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:34 AM): Oh, for crying out loud -- if you had started out doing it the right way, instead of going for these "instant cures', your bank account would be fatter. No question that branding is a start up cost, just like buying your PC and phone lines.

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:34 AM): Rob, thanks for your input. There's certainly more to explore here. I really appreciate your input. Now, I'm going to sit back and listen to my fellow FBees

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:35 AM): Del, I agree with you, I actually don't like USP

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:35 AM): Joel, you should be framing your new pitch according to your branding strategy. And as we discussed (Joel was on a FrankelCall), everything you have pervasively developed needs to be retrofit to the new strategy.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:36 AM): People need to realize that business is done over time, and just because e-mail travels instantly, people's minds still work at the same rate.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:36 AM): FrankelCall was great and I'm _am_ following the strategy

Cindy (5/14/101 9:37 AM): Entered the room.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:37 AM): But I'm always trying to find the most efficient way of doing things

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:37 AM): You have no idea how frustrated I get with my own practice. Clients call me one day, absolutely demanding I fly to their offices tomorrow....and then end up waiting three months to get the budget approved!

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:38 AM): ouch

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:38 AM): Joel, every day you can tighten up the program, and invent new ways to implement the brand.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:38 AM): Right now my biggest problem, I suppose, is that while designers are my clients the money actually comes from their clients

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:38 AM): My point is that DEAL FLOW is where it's at. Give yourself three months to build up new business contacts.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:38 AM): and while designers depend on word of mouth a lot it doesn't seem like they are getting a lot of business that way

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:38 AM): so I'm thinking of helping designers find clients

Cindy (5/14/101 9:39 AM): Joel, I'm sure you are following what you picked up of the strategy. Making more than a 20% change in how you do things based on one phone call would be remarkable. Rob's trying to help you get the full 100%.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:39 AM): Joel, as long as you can identify the problems, you can design a solution.

michael@tapinternet.com (5/14/101 9:39 AM): rob - glad to hear that we're not alone in that... :)

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:39 AM): That's true Cindy

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:39 AM): Joel you should also be recruiting business from your end and looking for designers to do the front end work.

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:40 AM): Rob, when you talk about deal flow, what steps do you take to get it started (How do you know that it's flowing?)

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:40 AM): Rob, wouldn't that dilute my focus?

Cindy (5/14/101 9:40 AM): Feel great about the changes you have made -- and if you work on it consistently, you'll succeed.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:40 AM): MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: ANYONE who says they had a great first quarter of 2001 is lying. Now, back to our regular chat...

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:40 AM): No Joel, that's the second half of your strategy -- you give them business, they give you business.

Del (5/14/101 9:41 AM): BULL^&*@!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:41 AM): (Anyone have a specific issue they want to throw in?)

Del (5/14/101 9:41 AM): I had a GREAT 1st quarter. Then April slapped me in the face!

Cindy (5/14/101 9:41 AM): hey, Rob, it's a bifurcated economy -- tech is dragging but for some STRANGE reason, the housing market is still going strong

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:41 AM): My, isn't Del feisty today....

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:41 AM): Rob, I DID have a great first quarter -- April sucked though!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:41 AM): Okay, so I'll amend that to first 1/3.....

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:42 AM): LOL Del!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:42 AM): My January and February were good, but I agree about March and April....Phew!

Del (5/14/101 9:42 AM): :-)

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:42 AM): actually, I'm very interested in that bit Rob. If designers are my focus and market shouldn't I be cold-calling on designers? Instead of cold-calling on clients that I could drive to designers

michael@tapinternet.com (5/14/101 9:42 AM): no - first quarter is right - quarter of 12 = 3months. Jan/Feb/march

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:42 AM): May has been pretty good so far

Del (5/14/101 9:42 AM): Rob: Your first quarter wasn't that bad was it? And you knew that April was going to be horrible. :-)

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:43 AM): Rob, what about Deal Flow? How do you know when it's working vs. when you are chasing shadows?

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:43 AM): Gut instinct, Matt :-)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:44 AM): Yes, Joel, I'd buy that...but imagine how much better the cold call goes when you mention to the designers that a big part of your brand ethic is awarding work to front end designers?

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:44 AM): Well, just to throw it out there... my first quarter sucked but I had major business in April :-) May is sucking now with new change in strategy

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:44 AM): Transition, Joel. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Del (5/14/101 9:44 AM): Joel: You mentioned finding jobs for designers, I just pulled out an issue of How. Have you checked out www.freeagent.com? Does that. Designer/Client match.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:45 AM): Matt: my golden rule is by probing for budget in the early phases.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:45 AM): Del: They actually seem to be aware of that site and a bunch of others

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:45 AM): Thanks RF!

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:45 AM): Del: Thanks though!

Del (5/14/101 9:46 AM): Joel: No problem. :-)

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:46 AM): Well, I still drive business to designers, though. Whenever I get something to send to them.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:46 AM): One of the reasons I point inquiries to http://www.robfrankel.com/about.html, where they can see "way's I work". Only one or two prices are mentioned there, but it gives them choices from really expensive to FREE.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:47 AM): The people with no budget take the free stuff. The serious people choose an option and I tailor an arrangement to suit them.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:48 AM): I'm just gonna create a forum to get designers together to discuss how to generate business, etc. Best run projects, deal with developers, etc. I hope this could be a way to give back to them.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:48 AM): The point is that if you give people choices -- real choices, not fluff -- they feel the respect you show them and become more open and honest with you.

Cindy (5/14/101 9:49 AM): Sounds great, Joel.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:49 AM): Thanks Cindy!

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:49 AM): Joel, I think this is a god idea. If you got FrankelTips today, this is very much in line with the "magician" technique I discussed.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:50 AM): Very often, the business is not where you think it is. It can come from places you never expected, but only if you create those places.

Terry (terry@kididdles.com) (5/14/101 9:50 AM): Joel, it is a good idea -- it might be tricky getting folks to lose their competitive edge and open up, though. You might try to find ways to tackle that in advance.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:50 AM): (TEN MINUTE WARNING)

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:51 AM): When you give away something of real value FREE, doesn't that detract from the value of the things you charge for, Rob?

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:51 AM): Terry, I will try. But suggesting things and trying to drive the discussion

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:51 AM): Hey, take a look at what Terry is doing with the E-Tailers chat. I guarantee that it will -- eventually -- get her business while raising her standard as a leader in that niche.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:52 AM): True. Go Terry! Mine is a similar idea. Establish leadership. I certainly have a lot of experience dealing with both designers and clients. And running projects. Sales too, although not perfect.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:52 AM): Yes, Matt, which is why I never give anything with a price on it for free. I might add value (as I do for my tapes, where I offer a copy of my book to subscribers when they order), or I might send a client a copy of my book in addition to their project.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:53 AM): But I NEVER do spec work, or give away valued work product. The minute you do, you're saying, "Hey, wear me down enough, and I'll agree that my work isn't worth what I'm charging."

Frederick (the1960area.com) (5/14/101 9:54 AM): Can I suggest those running chats, take the 'on the road' - arrange to have them at different sites each week. There are many idle chatrooms around that could use the boost, and you get extra exposure.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:54 AM): Joel, don't be too hard on yourself, either. You're doing a lot of heavy lifting here by yourself. It takes time.

Del (5/14/101 9:54 AM): Or just as bad, discounting your work/product to get the job. You'll rarely, if ever, get to charge them full price in the future.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:54 AM): well, you can never be too hard on yourself :-)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:55 AM): Yeah, Joel, you can. It can put you in the hospital, too. So just be satisfied with a good day's work, then go out and play with the kids or your dog. There's more to life than the next project.....

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:55 AM): Agreed, Del.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:56 AM): well, daily heavy workouts help :-) good physical regimen leads to good mental health and productivity. I speak from experience. But true, need to derive satisfaction from whatever you are doing.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:57 AM): And, you can make yourself crazy with prospects' seeming lack of response. It makes me nuts to wait for calls, so I deliberately schedule stuff that takes me away from the stress. It's hard to appreciate that your prospects have their own lives and stuff that makes their lives nuts.

Del (5/14/101 9:57 AM): Joel: Hit the gym too, eh? I was at mine by 3:15am today.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:58 AM): After this, for example, I'm heading out for a some good coffee! <---deserves a treat

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:58 AM): Del, you are one huge animal.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:58 AM): 3:15 - that's crazy. 6:30 more like it. 3 times a week, the other 2 days - 3 mile runs. Plus a few hours of tennis on Saturday. I just hope it will translate into sales somehow :-)

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:58 AM): (TWO MINUTES)

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 9:58 AM): Of course I have to give it time as I only started a couple of weeks ago :-)

Del (5/14/101 9:59 AM): Rob: Heh. I had a huge custom order come in on wed mid-morning and had it completed in an hour. Sent a pdf proof and fax copy to their office. They called back and asked me to hold the order for 2 weeks. They didn't think they'd get it so fast. (They didn't have their new office or new phone number ready.) Basically they gave me information that wasn't up-to-date. :-(

Matt Clark (5/14/101 9:59 AM): When you give away something of real value FREE, doesn't that detract from the value of the things you charge for, Rob?

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:59 AM): Now THAT'S funny

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 9:59 AM): Yes, Matt, it does. Didn't I answer that?

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 10:00 AM): Matt lost his chat update

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 10:00 AM): Del, we need to talk about that next week --responding too fast! Great topic!

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 10:00 AM): btw, FrankelTips is great, for those who are not subscribed

Matt Clark (5/14/101 10:00 AM): sorry, technical difficulties

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 10:00 AM): In fact, that could be next week's FrankelTips....

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 10:00 AM): and you can send questions in too

Del (5/14/101 10:00 AM): Will do. I'll cut-and-paste it.

RobFrankel (Rob@RobFrankel.com) (5/14/101 10:01 AM): Okay, what a fun session today! I'll see you online!

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 10:01 AM): oops

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 10:02 AM): I'm "Joel Reymont" on AOL IM if anyone wants to continue the discussion!

Del (5/14/101 10:02 AM): Cya Rob.

Joel Reymont (5/14/101 10:02 AM): Thanks Rob!

Matt Clark (5/14/101 10:02 AM): Thanks for the incredible service, Rob!