Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 8:56 AM): Aloha! I'm still in Hawaii, so this Free Clinic is a little early in the morning for me...

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 8:58 AM): But I'm ready if anyone wants to begin...

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:01 AM): Entered the room.

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:01 AM): aloha

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:02 AM): Entered the room.

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:02 AM): How's the weather in Hawaii?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:03 AM): Gorgeous! This really is the time to do a conference! No humidity, a few clouds.

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:03 AM): this has probably been brought up before, but the year is 2001, not 101...

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:03 AM): :)

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:03 AM): what conference was that again?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:03 AM): Michael: It is? Oh my gosh! I'm 1900 years late!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:04 AM): This was the E-Comm 2001 conference, Nathan. On the island of Hawaii in Kona. A great place, great speakers and people, but again, sadly, not overly well attended.

Del (3/12/2001 9:04 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:05 AM): Still, it was VERY beneficial for anyone who did attend. I made lots of very good connections -- and held a drawing to give away a book and a tape set.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:05 AM): Also, learned some great stuff from top pro's.

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:07 AM): Rob, I don't if it was mentioned here yet, but how are you finding the I-Branding discussion list?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:07 AM): Got into some very good top level discussions with people like John Audette and Randy Conrads. Randy is the founder of classmates.com -- talk about a success story!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:08 AM): Nathan, how do you mean regarding I-Branding?

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:08 AM): John Audette - Godfather of Internet Marketing

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:08 AM): Rob, are you finding the discussions stimulating, etc.

JB Waterman (3/12/2001 9:09 AM): Entered the room.

Dolores Pepper (3/12/2001 9:10 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:10 AM): Well, Nathan, it's just one more exploratory mission on the web. So far, I know that a lot of people have subscribed to it, but as always, it takes a while before they settle into the culture and expectations of the list. We've had about 15 issues. This week's is slim but last week's was huge.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:11 AM): Remember that FrankelBiz started off -- if you can believe it -- with only one or two posts a week....

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:11 AM): Very true, building community is by far the most time consuming and most difficult Internet Marketing task.

Mary (3/12/2001 9:11 AM): So, I'm interested in purchasing the Frankel Tapes - what can I expect o learn?

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:11 AM): Or task in general, even if it's not marketing

Del (3/12/2001 9:12 AM): Rob: Company A works exclusively with a specific niche consumer. They have identified a "sister" niche to go after. Does company A maintain the same brand identity and go after both consumers or create a new brand focusing on the new niche?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:13 AM): Mary, I did the tapes to take people to the next level. Revenge of Brand X lays the groundwork of what branding can and should do. The tapes get into "how to" do it , what to look for. It's as much a day session as I can do without actually being there.

JB Waterman (3/12/2001 9:13 AM): Entered the room.

Mary (3/12/2001 9:14 AM): Great - I think I understand what a brand is - I need the "how to"

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:14 AM): So it takes you through everything step by step, along with why everything should be done, what you can expect and gives examples. I've been told that the tapes are also very entertaining - not boring like most speakers stuff.

Terry (kididdles.com) (3/12/2001 9:14 AM): Entered the room.

Terry (kididdles.com) (3/12/2001 9:14 AM): Mornin' folks!

Mary (3/12/2001 9:15 AM): You've got yourself a sale!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:15 AM): Del: It depends on how closely the two niches are. If it's a natural progression, my tendency is to develop a sub brand under the master brand. For example, I have no problem with McDonalds introducing a triple deck burger, but I wouldn't have my oil changed there.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:16 AM): Mary, if this set doesn't teach you the how to -- including how to support the brand -- NO tape set can!

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:17 AM): Incidentally, -- last thing about the tapes -- I made the tapes specifically for people who were budget-challenged....not to get into the tape-selling business.

Mary (3/12/2001 9:18 AM): However, they still challenge the budget a bit (LOL)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:19 AM): Mary, I can't do EVERYTHING for free!!! My kids need braces!

Del (3/12/2001 9:19 AM): Rob: The niches run parallel with one another and do co-mingle, but the existing name and branding has been solely focused on the initial niche.

Mary (3/12/2001 9:19 AM): Has anyone else listened to the tapes?

Mary (3/12/2001 9:20 AM): can you give examples of the "niches" so we can concretize your issue?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:20 AM): Del, if they work together, you should think about generating a sub-brand that relates to the master brand -- and also has room to spawn more sub-brands incase you discover more niches in the future.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:21 AM): And PLEASE...don't make it something like "MasterBrand Plus"! Yeccch!

Del (3/12/2001 9:22 AM): I've been doing it ass-backwards. I have a specific sub-brand (which I'm currently operating) and a potential new brand (for the other niche) and a master brand which is not being advertised at all (just the name that appears on customer credit card bills.)

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:22 AM): Rob, I would think G.E. has done a good job of sub-brands - they have quite a few different division which are powerhouse in their markets, yet they have the G.E. name

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:23 AM): Nathan, GE has developed many independent brands and done a great job. But they're independent. I think that Sears does a good job with Craftsman tools. The craftsman name lends instant credibility for value and reliability, but they always mention it as "Sears Craftsman" stuff.

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:24 AM): also Kenmore I think is one of their brands for home appliances

meehna (3/12/2001 9:25 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:25 AM): I think that's closer to the example that Nathan was shooting for. At the same time, Microsoft tries to do the same thing with its products, but they don't stick as well. We all call it Excel, or Word...Only Microsoft Office seems to have stuck.

meehna (3/12/2001 9:26 AM): Still, when we say Word or excel, we know it's Microsoft.

Arik Schenkler (shenkler@netvision.net.il) (3/12/2001 9:26 AM): Entered the room.

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:26 AM): I think the MS naming thing has something to do with syllables, personally.

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:26 AM): "Sears craftsman" is 3 syllables.

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:26 AM): "Microsoft PowerPoint" is 6

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:26 AM): ack

Nathan Steingart (3/12/2001 9:27 AM): I think coke does an even better job...coke, sprite, Fruitopia, they TRY to make distinctions

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:27 AM): Yes, but when you think about what branding is supposed to do -- turn users into evangelists that spur the next sale -- it doesn't work nearly as well for Microsoft as it does for Sears.

meehna (3/12/2001 9:27 AM): But you don't need Microsoft in front of PowerPoint. You go into any story and you buy PowerPoint, which is a brand of itself. Microsoft owns the brand.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:28 AM): Michael, gotta disagree with you there. Length rarely has anything to do with success. just look at go.com.

Del (3/12/2001 9:28 AM): Rob: They are both commodity players (thirst quenchers and thirst builders, heh), but what differentiates them to you?

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:28 AM): I qualified it with "personally" :)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:29 AM): Nathan, Coke actually has a different issue there. In their case, their trying to create brands that distinguish themselves from the cola, in order to preserve the illusion of product choice and avoid monopoly issues.

meehna (3/12/2001 9:29 AM): Change of topic anyone?

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:29 AM): There's no need to say "Microsoft" in front of the names, but there's no real *need* to with Sears either.

michael@tapinternet.com (3/12/2001 9:29 AM): But it's easier, imo.

Ira Pasternack (3/12/2001 9:30 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:30 AM): Michael: Don't get hooked on brevity as an asset. that's an old advertising adage designed to write copy for outdoor billboards, not branding at all.

meehna (3/12/2001 9:30 AM): Anyone attending Internet World? I'd like to get in for a day and want to know if anyone can help open the door. :) Would be grateful.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:30 AM): Sure..."go.com" = "broke", "dead".....all short descriptions

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:31 AM): Tee hee

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:32 AM): I personally don't do Internet World, but I'll bet if you post to the FrankelBiz list, you can get a promo invitation to the floor.

meehna (3/12/2001 9:33 AM): Thanks, I will.

Arik Schenkler (shenkler@netvision.net.il) (3/12/2001 9:34 AM): How many members are on FrankelBiz?

meehna (3/12/2001 9:35 AM): I'm at a different computer and don't have my RULES. Which address to I write the dictator with my NEED: request?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:35 AM): Arik: A few thousand are registered, but the passalong is amazing. Must be at least about five time that.

Ira Pasternack (3/12/2001 9:35 AM): Internet World has gotten much more stingy with the free passes, they don't give vendors the unlimited number they used to I don't think, but it is still worth trying - and if anyone has any, I'm sure it will be someone on FB

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:35 AM): Meehna: FrankelBiz@listserv.robfrankel.com

Arik Schenkler (shenkler@netvision.net.il) (3/12/2001 9:35 AM): Thanks

meehna (3/12/2001 9:36 AM): thanks

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:37 AM): In fact, Arik, an advertiser just wrote to tell me that on their last buy, they bought two weeks on other lists, one week on ours. Over that time period, all other lists responded with 21, FrankelBiz produced 51 responses THE FIRST DAY.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:37 AM): This was a topic at the conference here....how branded community works so much better than just database marketing.

Arik Schenkler (shenkler@netvision.net.il) (3/12/2001 9:38 AM): Meaning?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:38 AM): Dolores, you've been awfully quiet....

Del (3/12/2001 9:38 AM): Rob: I guess when my b2b and b2c cards are ready, I should really make use of FrankelBiz. :-)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:39 AM): Meaning that for a whole lot less, the advertiser got way more response, much faster on a well-branded community list.

Ira Pasternack (3/12/2001 9:39 AM): Rob, if I am at all typical (and I know that may be a stretch in general, but bear with me ;) the pass along happens when there is a request that is relevant to someone I know... I don't pass posts or ads on all that often, but when I do the person I pass the info to is almost always interested

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:39 AM): Yup, Del...and remember to post with an added value of some kind for the bees.

meehna (3/12/2001 9:40 AM): Okay, Rob: Way to bypass cookies. On this computer I'm not a member of the list. Wrote out my request but got kicked back.

Del (3/12/2001 9:40 AM): Rob: Most definitely.

Ira Pasternack (3/12/2001 9:40 AM): but... not sure if it is the branding as much as it is the filtering you do, to cut out the crap

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:40 AM): Yes, Ira, I believe that's the case. Not all posts get passed along, but you don't necessarily need that. You just need one or two of them to happen and the receiver of the passalong signs up.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:41 AM):

Meehna, you must post with the exact address with which you subscribed. Or wait to get home to send...

meehna (3/12/2001 9:41 AM): OkEY DOK.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:42 AM): Ira, that filtering is ESSENTIAL to the brand! It's also why the sponsors and advertisers do so much better....the bees know I wouldn't just palm off some greaseball outfit. You have no idea the crap that advertisers throw my way....

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:43 AM): Because the FAQ's are so strict, the Bees know they can respond to the ad and not have it be a complete waste of their time.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:43 AM): Incidentally, Ira what are you up to these days?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:44 AM): (Ira was one of our earliest FrankelBiz members)

cathy (3/12/2001 9:45 AM): Entered the room.

Ira Pasternack (3/12/2001 9:45 AM): well, I hoped to be able to show you my new web site today, but it isn't quite ready... my focus these days is on building Web sites for Doctors, got our first two clients online last month and our own site will be ready in the next 24 hours I hope

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:46 AM): Great...okay, floor's open for anyone else..still got 15 minutes!

Ira Pasternack (3/12/2001 9:46 AM): imagine that, a net biz with clients, and revenue (some anyway :) before we even got our own site online!

Arik Schenkler (shenkler@netvision.net.il) (3/12/2001 9:48 AM): What do you mean by database marketing? buying email lists?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:49 AM): Arik, most people think that if they have a database full of subscribers, they have a community. totally wrong. If you have a database that's all you have.

Terry (kididdles.com) (3/12/2001 9:50 AM): Rob: I agree 100% !

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:50 AM): Database marketing is just like offline marketing-- hit as many people as you can with the offer, mail merge it to look somewhat customized, and pray that 1 to 2% will buy.

Terry (kididdles.com) (3/12/2001 9:50 AM): I spend a lot of time communicating with my visitors so that they can see the 'person' behind the site.

Arik (3/12/2001 9:51 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:51 AM): that, incidentally, is the myth of "opt-in" marketing. Just because you have been authorized to use someone's e-mail address doesn't mean they're buyers.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:52 AM): Yeah, terry, I think that's wise. In the tapes, I talk about the Branded Icon. SO IMPORTANT to an online brand.

Arik (3/12/2001 9:52 AM): What is the common denominator of FrankelBiz? and how was it made?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:54 AM): Arik, I built the brand on the ONE thing Nobody can duplicate: Rob Frankel. in fact, if you go to the archives, you can see the last article I ever wrote for ClickZ announcing the launch of FrankelBiz and why I decided to do it.

Del (3/12/2001 9:55 AM): Terry: Have you ever contemplated a live chat software?

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:55 AM): This is just one more facet of the web that few understand: personality (whether you like the personality or not) is essential to the brand. It's how your ethics and brand aspects are expressed.

Arik (3/12/2001 9:56 AM): Entered the room.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:56 AM): (FIVE MINUTE WARNING)

Terry (kididdles.com) (3/12/2001 9:56 AM): Del: no, not really -- with all of the kids on the site, it was (and is) a security issue I don't really want to get involved in

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:57 AM): Believe it or not, the hardest working element of FrankelBiz in terms of establishing brand is the FAQ document.

Terry (kididdles.com) (3/12/2001 9:57 AM): Rob, your FAQ is excellent. Humor, authority and hardball blended neatly into one :-)

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 9:58 AM): Thanks, Terry. out of all the elements, it's where I put the most time -- and it has saved me years of man hours!

meehna (3/12/2001 9:58 AM): Thanks, Rob -- and everyone. I'm signing off now.

Del (3/12/2001 9:59 AM): Terry: Sorry, I miswrote my question. I meant eCommerce chat software so you can communicate with your adult shoppers.

Del (3/12/2001 9:59 AM): YOU and them, NOT them amongst one another.

Terry (kididdles.com) (3/12/2001 10:00 AM): Del: no, I haven't considered that either, though it's probably a good suggestion. I do, however, respond to most store inquiries (during waking hours anyhow) within a matter of minutes.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 10:00 AM): Del: Click on the link below the banner to get to Brian Rickman. He wrote this chat script and is my first choice for anything.

Rob Frankel (rob@robfrankel.com) (3/12/2001 10:01 AM): Whoa, time flies! Gotta get pool side before my flight leaves! See you online everyone next week1

Terry (kididdles.com) (3/12/2001 10:01 AM): the other benefit of an Email is that I get to ask them if they want a print catalog, or to join the store mailing list. :-)

Arik (3/12/2001 10:01 AM): Rob Thanks. Shalom all

Terry (kididdles.com) (3/12/2001 10:01 AM): Thanks, Rob -- have fun!